Jefe in the CO wrote:
Comparing Mo's times to Geb, Tergat, Sihane, Bek is like comparing todays sluggers against Sosa, McGuire and Bonds. It is a different era. Now that isn't to say that Mo isn't on something but it's probably a lot less than the freewheeling days of no EPO tests and biological passports.
Riiiiiight. Rupp has run nearly 30 seconds faster than any white dude during those free wheeling days, but yeah, its a different era now.
Aouita does deserve a mention in this thread.
His range from 800 to 5000 would still have him amongst the athletes at the top of the lists today, he won multiple WC and OG medals, (5000 gold in LA, 800 bronze in Seoul!!, 5000 Gold Rome, 1500 Bronze Helsinki), set WR in 1500 and 5000 (1st sub 13) and some less ran distances. Other important factor is that he was dominant during his era. He did beat other stars in their event like Cruz, Ngugi a.o.
Only thing holding him back for GOAT, is the lack of diversity (yeah, even with his tremendous range of events on the track). His xc results are not that good (roadracing was not quite the same in the eighties with emphasis on a few marathons).
Stanhope wrote:
Aouita does deserve a mention in this thread.
His range from 800 to 5000 would still have him amongst the athletes at the top of the lists today, he won multiple WC and OG medals, (5000 gold in LA, 800 bronze in Seoul!!, 5000 Gold Rome, 1500 Bronze Helsinki), set WR in 1500 and 5000 (1st sub 13) and some less ran distances. Other important factor is that he was dominant during his era. He did beat other stars in their event like Cruz, Ngugi a.o.
Only thing holding him back for GOAT, is the lack of diversity (yeah, even with his tremendous range of events on the track). His xc results are not that good (roadracing was not quite the same in the eighties with emphasis on a few marathons).
Aouita is a drug pusher
"Steeplechaser Melissa Rollison, interviewed by an Australian newspaper, renewed allegations that the Olympic 5,000 meters champion urged her to take human growth hormone during a training camp in Albuquerque, New Mexico in 2004
"He was like, 'Everyone else is on it, so why wouldn't you want to do it?" she said. "I said I wanted to make it the proper way, but he then tried to convince me HGH wasn't illegal.""
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfield&id=2336602totally how can you compare now to
epo era or even 2000's when
could rock up with sky high hct .
haile didnt revolutionise long distance
but i know what did .
And
CERA is the king of the epo's.
see what it did for ramzi and webb
from average to world beater.
bekele went from good to untouchable.
no way would he of been able to do
what did , xc in awful conditions, indoors,
whenever , whereever without it .no injurys
let alone to just front run with such ease.
normal epo just not as good
at maintaining and keeping hct at such
a high level year round ,training competing
let alone worry about test til summer 2008
then have to duck and dive again wit epo.
reader of the forums wrote:
Random Dude wrote:Who is ahead of Mo:
3. Cierpinski - winning back to back OG in the Marathon is insane
The only 'greatest of all time' list Cierpinski is on is 'greatest dopers of all time who got away with it'
Theyre all doped up, what does it matter.
'MO HAS A THICK AFRICAN ACCENT'
'MO'S ENGLISH IS NOT THAT GOOD'
Mo went from someone who cheat on his wife to someone with limited english capability in less than few months
WOW just WOW , these the types of idiots who are posting on this thread
I rest my case
You just can't be relevant in track commentary if you believe Farah is the GOAT.
He has broken ONE WR, probably the softest one at any long distance indoors or out.
ALL of his titles have come against the most watered-down competition the events have ever seen.
A guy with the EXACT SAME ability running in the late 90s or even early 00s wouldn't even be the conversation for best of the year, let alone greatest of all time.
Um...Tergat? Gebrselaasie? BEKELE?
But you know this. Nice attention-getting thread, anyway :)
Really? Cam can do that wrote:
Idiot
Cam Levins ran a 8:15 two mile just 30 minutes after a 3:54 mile indoors and he ain't close to Mo Farah.
You're the Idiot. Levins ran 44 less miles than Viren did and ran only 6 seconds faster.
Plus all Viren's races, prior to the 2-mile, were under the stress of the Olympics. Not some paced time trial.
rupp-certified saldbar wrote:
You just can't be relevant in track commentary if you believe Farah is the GOAT.
He has broken ONE WR
He didn't even do that. He broke an indoor world best, far from the record.
fanboys will definiitely cream pants when farah turns into a goat ........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proofBarakus Obama wrote:
reader of the forums wrote:The only 'greatest of all time' list Cierpinski is on is 'greatest dopers of all time who got away with it'
Theyre all doped up, what does it matter.
laying the smackdown wrote:
As much as I would love to, I don't think it's quite fair yet to bring up Kenenisa's XC wins when arguing his potential GOAT status over Haile's GOAT status. Each athlete has a 2nd surface of dominance, and for now the 2 cancel each other out to some extent in my opinion. *** THUS I AM WAITING PATIENTLY FOR KENENISA TO REALLY OWN THE ROADS. IF HE DOES, IT'LL BE MORE DIFFICULT TO CONTINUE CALLING HAILE THE GREATEST. As you've said yourself, talent doesn't go away, so it's only a matter of time before history repeats itself like Bekele's Paris win, or better.
When did Haile dominate in the marathon? I recall only DNFs and world records. When did he win against strong fields?
Asbel Kiprop went after the 1500m WR just last year but came up short. But perhaps you refer only to the 5K and 10K.
Let's turn it into a proper race-say 5k at around 12.45 pace-and all at their best-then who would win-only one winner-not the big 3, instead it would be the enigma that was Daniel Komen-I don't believe any of them could have stayed with him over the last 300 metres.
reader of the forums wrote:
Barakus Obama wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proofTheyre all doped up, what does it matter.
I'm sick of this bullshit tactic of conjuring up an "innocent until proven doper" paradigm.
Track is a business, not a debate. It sells performances to fans as entertainment. If the fan says "forget it, they're all dopers," there is no need for proof, any more than a customer who suspects a used car is defective needs to prove it before walking away.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the MERCHANT if he wants to sell the product. The customer need prove NOTHING to reject it.
That is why track is a DEAD sport. Nobody believes it's clean, precisely because it's run by charlatans who perpetuate this "not-proven-dirty" sham to project a false image of virtue. They'd rather watch other dirty sports like MMA and football that at least don't lie to them.
thehoffster wrote:
Let's turn it into a proper race-say 5k at around 12.45 pace-and all at their best-then who would win-only one winner-not the big 3, instead it would be the enigma that was Daniel Komen-I don't believe any of them could have stayed with him over the last 300 metres.
Off the top of my head, didn't Haile beat him in the last 300 meters?
Bad Wigins wrote:
reader of the forums wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proofI'm sick of this bullshit tactic of conjuring up an "innocent until proven doper" paradigm.
Track is a business, not a debate. It sells performances to fans as entertainment. If the fan says "forget it, they're all dopers," there is no need for proof, any more than a customer who suspects a used car is defective needs to prove it before walking away.
The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the MERCHANT if he wants to sell the product. The customer need prove NOTHING to reject it.
That is why track is a DEAD sport. Nobody believes it's clean, precisely because it's run by charlatans who perpetuate this "not-proven-dirty" sham to project a false image of virtue. They'd rather watch other dirty sports like MMA and football that at least don't lie to them.
It is understandable why you are frustrated.
You repeatedly make assertions without providing evidence for those assertions.
Your annoyance however does not shift the burden of proof away.
siksikayi wrote:
I think that you can fool around all day about who has more medals/better times on what surfaces. The arguments are out there. But I think that one criteria for GOAT should be their role in revolutionizing their distance. Look at the changes Haile wrought on the 5k/10k records - night and day. Farah can't say that - he has no records of note. Bekele can't say that, because his records are a marginal improvement on Haile's. Bannister passed a great milestone, but lets face it, it was going down, and he really just trimmed the progression a couple of times. Haile changed the whole face of 5/10k and brought marathon into the modern era. For instance in hockey Gretzky is the GOAT not just because he had the stats, the cups, the hart trophies etc. but he also totally revolutionized the game.
Bingo was his name-o. Haile is Jordan, Bekele is like LeBron or Durant or something. That's all.
Oh yeah, and Rupp is Larry Bird or maybe Kevin McHale!
Mo is Charles Barkley or Chuck Person, The Rifleman.
Lagat is Latrell Spreewell, and the list goes on and on...
Les wrote:
rojo wrote:[ this. It's just TOTALLY wrong. A world record with lots of people trying to set it would be the best and easiest way to do it.
IN a world record attempt, you aren't racing. You are time trialing. You get behind the rabbit and just shut your brain off and think. Then you keep grinding after he steps off. If there are other people also going for it, then it's even better. You have a rabbit the whole race.
The reason why it's not done is simple. It's a WORLD RECORD ATTEMPT. No one else can run that fast.
Look at Rupp's AR in the 10k last year at Pre. He was helped tremendouly by having a rabbit for something like 9k. Bekele was on his own at Pre forever.
So a world record attempt with a lot of people is the best. Like in any WR attempt, you time trial is until your body can't do any longer, but when the going gets tough, you've got another guy to focus on and your competitive instincts take over. Instead of letting up and giving up a couple of seconds on the last lap, you dig deep to make sure you win and get the WR, not the other bloke.
.
But Rojo, nobody in the real world does this. If there were other people in the race capable of setting the record the runner trying to set the record might end up being a pacesetter and lose the race while setting up others to set the record. In any recent record attempt there's never any SERIOUS COMPETITION in the race, only pacesetters. In Rupp's 10k there was no serious competition, no one who raced Diamond League. Put Gebremeskel in the race and I guarantee you, Rupp would not set any kind of record, he would just be trying to beat Gebremeskel. Not true at all that (in the real world) why it's not done. Especially now, there is no one runner who is anointed the best who no one else can run with -- even Farah. Farah's PRs are way down the list so no one would be afraid of him in a record attempt. But if Farah does attempt a record this season I'd bet good money there would only be pacesetters, no serious competition in the attempt -- I wouldn't even try to call it a "race." By your theory the Olympic final would be the most conducive to setting a world record with all the best competition. But in the real world, everyone just tries to win. That's hard enough. It's next to impossible to race for time AND place at the same time.
At the 1999 Rome Mile Noah was right on El G's heels (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2i5YGRqJc).
dope. dope. It's so obvious that Mo farah is on the juice. He came out of no where. He was merely a international class athlete before 2011. Then he bursts into the scene and all sudden dominates. Yes the competition isnt as stiff as was 5-10 years, but I am HIGHLY suspicious.