Where does Rupp come in your all-time greatest American distance runner list?

I would say Lagat and Ryun as 1 and 2, Shorter, KK, Pre, Rupp, Rogers, Scott, Webb and Meb are hard to rank. I would say Rupp is in the top-5, but no higher than that becasue so far his only global championship credential is his Olympic silver medal, which is a real big deal. But, Rupp does not have any WXC stats, he doesn't even have a national cross title, which is weird considering he is the 10K AR holder. He has one national 5K track title and 5-6 10k track titles, but most of the 10K titles when when the top runners were clearly in the 5k. Rupp will likely get the outdoor 3k and 5k ARs and he has a good shoot at another global championship medal...at which point his legacy will be complete as the USA GOAT.

For the women, it is a lot easier:

1. Mary Decker

2. Kim Gallagher

3. Joan Benoit

4. Doris Brown

5. Madeline Manning

6. Regina Jacobs

7. Shalane Flanagan

8. Lynn Jennings

9. Jenny Simpson

10. Denna Kaster

Shoebacca wrote:

GoldenMiles wrote:

What about Khalid, who still has the US marathon record? I know he's not US-born, but if you're counting Lagat.... Just haven't seen his name mentioned yet.

Was surprised it took page 4 to find Khalid mentioned. I was clicking through the pages just to see if anyone had mentioned him yet.

Still no one else has mentioned him other than you.... Did everyone forget Khalid existed?

I think the problem with Khalid was that, to my knowledge, he was only on one national team and he was a DNF (Edmonton 2001). Also, his range was limited to the roads. His peak among the top marathoners in the world as an American could be considered rather limited as well (arguably he had just about the same time of dominance as a Moroccan). He had some big wins, but many of his times, while among the fastest Americans, got him 3rd, 4th and 5th place finishes. Injuries also limited his ability to compete for national teams. Lagat has kept on winning national titles and making international competitions.

Contrast this to Rodgers, who was dominant on the roads for some years. Shorter had long term success and success on the track. Plus Olympic success.

Your ranking system is a joke.

On both lists you have athletes that tested positive for drugs as #1

Also druggie Regina as #6 on the women's list

Even ignoring lagat's epo positive, no way is he ahead of ryun, or shorter for that matter

slopenguinrunner wrote:

In my honest opinion, there is a certain limit in making a ranking of the best American distance runners and weighing too heavily on PRs.

I think it's a very hard comparison or call to make. So many factors. The depth of e. africans and the coaching they are now receiving is certainly manyfold better than 20+ years ago.

The other thing is, how to you weigh range vs. top mark/ability in a specific event?

One question though, how many american runners could have had a world leading mark in the mile indoors, and also a world leading mark in the 10,000 outdoors? How many people in the world really? Did Geb, Bekele, Farah?

1. Ryun

2. Shorter

3. Rodgers / Rupp

4. Meb / Lagat

5. Pre

6. Webb

slopenguinrunner wrote:

I think the problem with Khalid was that, to my knowledge, he was only on one national team and he was a DNF (Edmonton 2001). Also, his range was limited to the roads. His peak among the top marathoners in the world as an American could be considered rather limited as well (arguably he had just about the same time of dominance as a Moroccan). He had some big wins, but many of his times, while among the fastest Americans, got him 3rd, 4th and 5th place finishes. Injuries also limited his ability to compete for national teams. Lagat has kept on winning national titles and making international competitions.

Contrast this to Rodgers, who was dominant on the roads for some years. Shorter had long term success and success on the track. Plus Olympic success.

Agree about Khannouchi but what about Sydney Maree? Got royally screwed by the whole S Africa thing but handled the situation gracefully [at least in public] and set ARs at 1500m [stood for 20 years, still #2 US performer behind Lagat], mile, 2000m, 3000m, 5000m. Also won the first 5th Ave Mile in 1981 in 3:47.52, which remains the event record.

year), the a the "cheap Brand snapback hats" of representatives Dragon mind, "Cheap Louis Vuitton jewelry" and card certain to "Cheap Louis Vuitton boston" third-tier the plump of "California Republic Beanies snapbacks"

Seeing people trying to justify not putting Lagat #1 is hilarious.

Haters gonna hate.

Perspectivation wrote:

One question though, how many american runners could have had a world leading mark in the mile indoors, and also a world leading mark in the 10,000 outdoors? How many people in the world really? Did Geb, Bekele, Farah?

World leading? Well, off the cuff and not looking it up, I think I recall Geb winning an IAAF indoor title at the 1500 during around the time he was still burning sub-27:00s outdoors.

Mo Farah fared well last year at Worlds and ran, what, a 3:28, 3:29 1500m race last year.

Rupp is certainly up there. And if he continues like this for another 2 or 3 years and medals in 2016 in Rio, I would put him over Shorter and Ryun. Possibly over Lagat.

dkny64 wrote:

Agree about Khannouchi but what about Sydney Maree? Got royally screwed by the whole S Africa thing but handled the situation gracefully [at least in public] and set ARs at 1500m [stood for 20 years, still #2 US performer behind Lagat], mile, 2000m, 3000m, 5000m. Also won the first 5th Ave Mile in 1981 in 3:47.52, which remains the event record.

A lot of great runners are getting overlooked. The Worlds did not start until 1983. Plus, with the Boycott of the 1980 Moscow games, the distance runners who were tops on the track between 1976 and 1984 fall into a vacuum.

You have Maree, Marty Liquori, Steve Scott (although Craig Virgin and Pat Porter got some mentions earlier).

team bernie wrote:

Seeing people trying to justify not putting Lagat #1 is hilarious.

Haters gonna hate.

It depends on the parameters on defining greatness. I think many here are using "fame" as a factor. Outside of track geeks, few are going to know the names we are listing off. However, more of the general public are going to have heard of Rodgers, Shorter, and Ryun. For whatever reason, the mile and the marathon stick in people's minds more often.

Fame? Seriously? GTFO

team bernie wrote:

Fame? Seriously? GTFO

Not saying I agree, but it probably is working in people's minds. Lagat's career has been longer than Shorter, Rodgers, or Ryun and marked with consistency and clear dominance over other American runners and with multiple American records even going to his late 30s. But he doesn't have the mystique of being the first high school boy to break the 4:00 mile barrier like Ryun. Or he isn't credited with helping to start the running boom of the 70s like Shorter or Rodgers. Plus, guys like Shorter and Rodgers still appear at big road races and marathons. Thousands of regular runners (who probably don't watch Flotrack) get to see and meet those guys as opposed to seeing Lagat race at the Armory or a Diamond League meet.

You have to at least separate 800m -1 mile, 5k-10k and marathon, otherwise the comparison is silly. I think the greatest raised American distance runners to date in these fields are:

1. Amazingly Ryun (after all these years) and Webb - mid distance.

2. Rupp and another guy but I'm not sure who that other guy is since it's debatable and could change in a few years - 5k-10k.

3. Hall and Meb - Marathon

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot the Steeple - Jager

Bump for Olympic Bronze and Chicago win since this thread started