KVB- If your education had more successful, "by the end" rather than feel threatened by some postings, shouldn't you have been able to see this type of thing as the immature and sophomoric (literally) behavior by boys and girls playing on their daddy's dime that it is, and smiled to yourself as you considered your own promising future in a more adult (and hopefully more mature) world?
Be the change you want to see. Put on a better party.
It's ho's not hoes.
too funny wrote:
You have no idea how funny that statement is. Kate is the very opposite of a "conservative freak". She is a "flaming liberal" all the way.
Liberals have promoted sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime for years. Not sure why they are surprised men have taken them up on their offer.
...
Women need to refuse to be complicit in these parties or accept the role and message their participation in such events sends.
So... KVB refuses to accept that role, and all you fine young fraternity gentlemen spend 6 pages of message board posts cutting her down from every silly angle you can conceive. If you all sat down and made a plan to prove she was correct as effectively as possible, you'd do exactly what you are doing.
the casual observer wrote:
I would be interested in hearing how Kate's former teammates feel about her posting about something that is not unique to Duke at all and not about running at all on a running forum where the only possible result is damaging recruiting to her former school.
After being subjected to her liberal tirades regarding the multiple "isms" of the world, her current comments aren't surprising. Most teammates learned to tune her out. She exhibited little tolerance for anyone's opinion other than her own, so why bother.
If Duke was so bad, why did she return after taking time off? Why come to the U.S. at all? Why not remain in Canada for college? In addition, there are multiple universities in the U.S. without a Greek system she could have attended. No school is a right fit for everyone. However, I agree with a couple other posters. If she was unhappy, why not transfer rather than continuing to take scholarship money from other young women who wanted to be there?
Finally, attending a frat party is elective- unlike some of the juvenile track functions mandated by the captains.
As far as hurting recruiting, it is up to future recruits to come to their own conclusions.
Say something that is both true and critical of Israel or the American Jewish Orgs who support Israel and you will see what real PC is. Your head will spin.
As far as that Duke incident a few years ago where these privileged white kids were indicted, the DA lost his job over that. When is the last time a DA lost his job over putting poor black men into jail for decades who were later shown to be innocent and whose conviction was obtained via shady means? Try never.
Lester Ballard wrote:
That's not setting the bar very high, so you may be right. I think it's wrong for "current Dukie" to not-so-subtly imply that Kate's observations were more about her psychological issues than what she saw. That's a very dangerous and unfair road to head down. "Current Dukie," in fact, all but says that Kate would not have said or even thought these things if she's been a more put-together and confident young woman. That's a load of shit.
This is absolutely correct.
It's not either simply a frat problem, or simply one that it only allowed to be perpetuated by women. It's much more complex than that; there are societal pressures on both men and women to behave a certain way and the psychology of both ends of the spectrum (the ones putting up the advertisements and the women who willingly attend those parties) is too complex for me to analyze.
As a relatively recent college grad from a peer institution of Duke's, I do know women who during the day would decry this sort of behavior and then at night play into it. Again, I can't even pretend to understand the psychology of it, but my guess is it has something to do with feeling wanted and loved and part of a group, even if that means feeling wanted "as a ho." If everyone else is going to the party and you aren't, well you're going to be the one in the dorm room by yourself that night. Twenty-year-olds have some sheep-like qualities, and it takes a particularly strong young woman to stand up against it, as Kate has.
Frat Life wrote:
I don't know. Every time I'm on Duke's campus, the only people who really seem to be in your face is the LGBT group. Duke seems to cater to every minority group, LGBT, not to mention the majority of the courses have the "race, sex gender" theme.
Kate always loved attention. Always desperate to have people looking at her. Whether it was shaving her head, dying her hair some outrageous color, or displaying complete intolerance for any opinion other than her liberal worldview, this latest quote isn't surprising. She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.
________________________________
I think I have changed my opinion. Based on this post, I can now say that while Duke claims to be the "Ivy League of the south", I think anything posted like that, you would think that someone, ANYONE, would say something. I don't care if it's 1970 or 2013. PC or no PC.
Having said all of this, and reading her original statements, I'm left wondering; "what is she trying to accomplish with this statement?"
And, I am also wondering; "Why do people find it offensive when someone says they don't like vulgar language posted for everyone to see" I wouldn't like it.
For example; many NPR news statements claim that porn is the most used websites in America. Yet, would you post that for everyone to see? No. I feel it's along the same lines. What you do in the privacy of your room or home is your business (within the law). But you don't need to shout it to the rest of us.
Parties have these themes because girls like acting and dressing like skanks and being objectified.
Don't complain about the idiot frat bros hosting these parties. Complain to the girls dressing and attending these parties.
PeterC, Really? Stop commenting. Everything that you say on this thread is irrelevant. FRATS4EVER!
still laughing at fratboys wrote:
amcrt wrote:Yes, and an equal amount people like yourself with the same time on their hands to express faux outrage that anyone would offer rebuttal to a comment surely designed to draw attention (mostly to herself).....then are shocked.....just shocked that anyone might offer another point of view.
I'm not expressing faux outrage. I'm simply laughing at all you pathetic frat boys. What's the world coming to when you can't enjoy your entitlement to a culture of alchohol, hazing and rape? Better shoot the messenger, Mr. Alpha Omega.
Wow! You know absolutely nothing about me, other than an opinion that might be opposed to yours, so you come up with that screed.
Seems to me this thread has become more about you, and Ms VB, lashing out at your college social frustrations than any larger issue.
If all of are still so worked up over some juvenile party posters in college, how are you able to make it through a day with all the other things happening in daily life?
I've been out of college for a couple decades now. Tell me, do they force you to drink alcohol or hazing or rape now? I managed to run, get an education and have friends without any fraternities, or anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't do. Is that not possible for you and Ms VB?
office hoes and ceo's was a big one
You people really are seriously clueless.
The interview the moron twins linked to dealt with a wide array of issues and only the final question touched on Kate's experience as a Duke student-athlete. The moron twins knew it would be useful to their corrupt agenda to essentially quote-mine the interview as if it was all about Kate venting her spleen; the twins may be idiots, but they know that their visitor base includes a great many people even dumber than they are.
In summary, Kate said she had great experiences as an athlete and praised he coaches, said that the sexism she saw on campus bothered her but that she actively sought out positive influences and groups to combat this, and admitted that depression and anxiety made inroads into her ability to fully appreciate her stay in Durham. Yet to listen to the shitheads here tell it, Kate was claiming that women students are forced to go to frat parties against their will, or was attempting to speak for all women and their motives, or hates men in general.
She said NOTHING remotely like that. She gave a capsule summary of her impressions and that was it. If people don't agree with her take on the campus atmosphere at Duke or elsewhere, so be it. She wasn't indicting anyone in articular or whining and on top of that she's clearly classier and far more intelligent that 95 percent of the regulars here, or at least the ones who are taking issue with her comments.
What a damn joke.
This post is getting to the heart of the issue at least for me.
Men at the frat parties are taking advantage of a system that women are helping to reinforce.
The guys are horny and the women are looking for acceptance.
We need to to teach young people that you can still form meaningful relationships outside of drunken orgies.[quoteyoung woman. That's a load of shit.
[/quote]
This is absolutely correct.
It's not either simply a frat problem, or simply one that it only allowed to be perpetuated by women. It's much more complex than that; there are societal pressures on both men and women to behave a certain way and the psychology of both ends of the spectrum (the ones putting up the advertisements and the women who willingly attend those parties) is too complex for me to analyze.
As a relatively recent college grad from a peer institution of Duke's, I do know women who during the day would decry this sort of behavior and then at night play into it. Again, I can't even pretend to understand the psychology of it, but my guess is it has something to do with feeling wanted and loved and part of a group, even if that means feeling wanted "as a ho." If everyone else is going to the party and you aren't, well you're going to be the one in the dorm room by yourself that night. Twenty-year-olds have some sheep-like qualities, and it takes a particularly strong young woman to stand up against it, as Kate has.[/quote]
I don't think KVB's comments will have any impact on recruiting compared to the fact that Duke has ruined more talent than any other program in the last decade. That's a hard title to earn.
Finally, some sanity. Excellent post.
Lester Ballard wrote:
You people really are seriously clueless.
The interview the moron twins linked to dealt with a wide array of issues and only the final question touched on Kate's experience as a Duke student-athlete. The moron twins knew it would be useful to their corrupt agenda to essentially quote-mine the interview as if it was all about Kate venting her spleen; the twins may be idiots, but they know that their visitor base includes a great many people even dumber than they are.
In summary, Kate said she had great experiences as an athlete and praised he coaches, said that the sexism she saw on campus bothered her but that she actively sought out positive influences and groups to combat this, and admitted that depression and anxiety made inroads into her ability to fully appreciate her stay in Durham. Yet to listen to the shitheads here tell it, Kate was claiming that women students are forced to go to frat parties against their will, or was attempting to speak for all women and their motives, or hates men in general.
She said NOTHING remotely like that. She gave a capsule summary of her impressions and that was it. If people don't agree with her take on the campus atmosphere at Duke or elsewhere, so be it. She wasn't indicting anyone in articular or whining and on top of that she's clearly classier and far more intelligent that 95 percent of the regulars here, or at least the ones who are taking issue with her comments.
What a damn joke.
mazzasan wrote:
Finally, some sanity. Excellent post.
Lester Ballard wrote:You people really are seriously clueless.
The interview the moron twins linked to dealt with a wide array of issues and only the final question touched on Kate's experience as a Duke student-athlete. The moron twins knew it would be useful to their corrupt agenda to essentially quote-mine the interview as if it was all about Kate venting her spleen; the twins may be idiots, but they know that their visitor base includes a great many people even dumber than they are.
In summary, Kate said she had great experiences as an athlete and praised he coaches, said that the sexism she saw on campus bothered her but that she actively sought out positive influences and groups to combat this, and admitted that depression and anxiety made inroads into her ability to fully appreciate her stay in Durham. Yet to listen to the shitheads here tell it, Kate was claiming that women students are forced to go to frat parties against their will, or was attempting to speak for all women and their motives, or hates men in general.
She said NOTHING remotely like that. She gave a capsule summary of her impressions and that was it. If people don't agree with her take on the campus atmosphere at Duke or elsewhere, so be it. She wasn't indicting anyone in articular or whining and on top of that she's clearly classier and far more intelligent that 95 percent of the regulars here, or at least the ones who are taking issue with her comments.
What a damn joke.
+1
Kate, stay away from the cesspool that is letsrun. Unfortunately this is a typical thread here.
Hi Kate, thanks for bringing some attention to this important issue. Instances of sexism can be amazingly easy for guys to overlook until pointed out. That was true for me, anyway, despite having a lot of sympathy for inequity issues generally (or thinking I did). Women speaking out was very valuable in opening my eyes.
When I was an undergrad the 'Track House' that I lived at would host parties, and many of them had themes that were terrible and sexist. At the time, I didn't see anything wrong with this. "CEOs and corporate hoes" - obviously that is ironic, right? And no one ever complained about it. But now I understand the pressure on girls not to complain, and I understand that while I may have easily interpreted these themes ironically, that is harder if you are the one under the boot. Those themes were harmful, and I wish I'd been aware of it at the time. It is amazing to me now that this could have been so invisible to me. Thanks again to Kate for her comments, they are extremely valuable and important.
Mr. Ballard nailed it.
Please Webfoot, if you find it so abhorrent here, why don't you lead the way out?
Are you performing some kind of public service by enduring the culture here to warn others?
If you hang out here fine, but don't be a sanctimonious tool when you read something you disagree with.
amcrt wrote:
Wow! You know absolutely nothing about me, other than an opinion that might be opposed to yours, so you come up with that screed. ... I managed to run, get an education and have friends without any fraternities, or anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't do. Is that not possible for you and Ms VB?
Wow! You did really great! You get a star! Now consider that you also know absolutely nothing about me... other than I think your need to criticize KVB because she thinks that CEOs and hoes parties are crappy is weird. Now that I now you've been out of college for a few decades I think it's even weirder.
I give credit to KVB for calling fraternities out on their well-earned reputation for low-class behavior. I give credit to her also for being well-educated and intelligent (go read the entire original interview and I think you will agree). I give her credit for being a multiple-time All American who is almost certainly a better athlete than every one of the people criticizing her here on this (running) message board. I give her credit for dying her hair without asking your permission or basically giving a hoot what you think of it.
NO ONE, including me or KVB, is arguing that drunken frat boys don't have a right to their gross parties. I am simply agreeing with KVB that it pulls the college down, not up.
Oh, and still laughing at your ridiculous need to criticize her for it. Freak.