Rojo and Usain Bolt

killarney wrote:

Taller people with longer bones also have longer muscles. Longer muscles exert more energy per contraction, similar force-to-mass but for a longer amount of time. This propels them longer per contraction (hence longer stride length) but takes more energy per stride (hence lower cadence).

Thus the taller you are the longer your optimal stride length is, a correlation that can be easily observed.

Longer muscles don't exert more energy per contraction. Stronger muscles exert more energy per contraction. Otherwise it'd be impossible for a shorter person to be stronger than a taller person.

Maybe someone posted this - simple answer to the child prodigy argument: Marion Jones. She made the Olympic trials final at 16 or 17.

You are correct, of course if they exert the same forces then there will be little difference. What my point was is that reality shows that Bolt owns these other doped guys. Doped or not Bolt has some advantage over the others. He either doesn't fatigue as much, reacts/starts better than others, strides better, turns over faster, or a combination of these and maybe other factors.

-If Bolt is doping I don't care. I've long grown tired of this obsession with 'dopers.'

-What I think makes bolt suspicious is that he lags behind all season and then steps up exactly at the olympics and world championships. It's like he flips a switch. Powell and Blake and gay are unable to do that (Gay actually ran 9.68 wind aided). Gay can sort of do it, but Bolt is the best at that. That's why it's suspicious. But I don't care if he's doing.

-Until they tested positive, most people wouldn't have suspect Asafa Powell and Tyson Gay of doping. Powell barely even doped and we don't know what Tyson was on.

-I respect Bolt. As a champion he's an good personality. However I was rooting for Gay, I still hope Gay somehow ends up running and don't care about the doping.

these recent "revelations" of drug use in track and field reflect a general problem in perception of reality.

the american and western people are very weak in the mind, generally speaking. they are easily fooled about anything and everything. they live in a fantasy land. they are lost souls talking bs non-stop.

all the while reality is staring them in the face. in this case of track and field - what is the reality?

track is no different from the tour de france - it was "dirty" since the 60's and never stopped being dirty = 85+%, exception lemonde. infact the culture has always been to use anything and everything that works to improve performance. the first olympics, athletes were taking everything that they thought would help them. everything.

http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2009/02/1904-olympic-marathon-winner-thomas-hicks-kicked-off-modern-era-of-doping-with-strychnine.html

people were on cocaine, heroin. what you say??? remember coke contained cocaine as a major ingredient. in europe most "tea" houses provided snuff, heroin and such to patrons, often academic. eatons sold hot-heroin kits to usa farmers, with ads directed at the house wife promising a cure for the blues, good health. the point is that right now people have this warped idea about the past, completely warped idea about the past. the past pretty much is the same as now, but with fancy gadgets, and worse food, more chemicals and radiation. we're a fat dumbed down version of our grandfathers and grandmothers basically.

sprinters were on steroids since the early 60's and never stopped. hyper responders go 9.7, a super freak, the science fiction 9.5.

more than half the medals in the 70's went to blood dopers in the distances. and 90% to EPO mid 90's moving forward.

all the womens records are mega-PED records. period. except marathon. viren is a dog in that he won't admit it. that's not a legend, that's a paper champion for the weak of mind.

all the sub 44 times in the 400m are EPO times. all the 326,7,8 times in the 1500m are EPO times. all the finalists in the 100m london olympics are PED users.

and the guys that were exceptions - that did not use - many dabbled on the edge, taking b vitamin injections, asthma cures "legit", anemia therapies.

track and field is a mess - like everything else is a mess - people by in large are too gutless and too dumb to put forward the real data and work toward real solutions.

at the end of the day, this clean sport idea is a myth, now and moving forward.

now is it is time to get on with the experiment. allow PEDs - but test athletes and see what the response is - and publish the results - and use the data - toward efficacy of use for the general public.

now we are talking about track and field being a useful thing as opposed to people selfishly running around in circles, so to speak.

**** end of diatribe ****

Comparing Babe Ruth, Lebron James and Bolt is useless

1. Babe Ruth was an anamoly that will never be approached, he hit more Hrs, than entire teams after any ball changes were made, plus he would have mde the HOF as a Pitcher had that been left alone, look it up

2. Lebron James? are you kidding me, a guy faster than any guard that ever played, jumps higher than any guy including David Thompson? You do not think that he has not had any help? Be real and is is NOT near the 270 pounds reported all the time

3. Bolt, stride length and frequency equals speed, no one wants to find him dirty, how else did Lance win 7 in a row and no one gave a hoot? He is left alone. Carl Lewis was what 6'2? Never a better anchor unless you include Bob Hayes

It is an era where no one gives a shit

the anti trello wrote:

Longer muscles don't exert more energy per contraction. Stronger muscles exert more energy per contraction. Otherwise it'd be impossible for a shorter person to be stronger than a taller person.

Energy = F*d. Longer and stronger muscles exert more energy.

This is why being short is advantageous in weight lifting - doing one contraction takes less energy, just as one stride for a short person takes less energy. Unfortunately in running you are "penalized" for a "short stride" so you have to do more of them; not so in weight lifting.

Rojo's idea that there are outliers is pretty silly. Babe Ruth might have been a much better home run hitter than anyone who came before him, but that was almost a century ago!

In 2013 in a sport with worldwide participation there is no way that Bolt can stick out that much just because he's tall.

This is the sad thing. He probably could have been the fastest clean sprinter in history. Great post...

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5294498#ixzz2ZN2t6nI5

the funniest post

killarney wrote:

Energy = F*d. Longer and stronger muscles exert more energy.

Ahhh you are a troll also. You got me. Good job.

Quit trying to fool yourselves.

Time will certainly show you all he too is like all the others who succumbed to the temptation of dominating their sport via PEDs.

Your arguments are futile. You will eventually be shown.

the anti trello wrote:

Ahhh you are a troll also. You got me. Good job.

Care to explain what part of energy = force * distance is trolling?

How about voltage = current*resistance? Gauss's law, is that one trolling? Maybe you got trolled to hard by your physics class and didn't get that far?

Here are another couple facts for you (or "troll post" as you might call it):

Bolt took 41 steps in the London 100m final (255 steps per minute). Blake took 46 steps (283 per minute). Gatlin took 42.5 (260 steps per minute).

Coincidentally if you scale Bolt's cadence to the height of Blake (5'11") and Gatlin (6'1") you get 278 and 268.

It appears optimal cadence does depend on height...

If it looks to good to be true, it is too good to be true.

He's dirty.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Bolt is juiced. Sooner or later the doping authorities will catch him red-handed.

hhxh wrote:

trello wrote:

Which is directly proportional to your height. A taller person can cover more ground with each step with all their muscles and joints at the same angles.

No it is not. Where do you people get this stuff from? Stride length is PURELY how hard you push off the ground. Has nothing to do with height or leg length. Otherwise, it'd be impossible for short people to jump higher than tall people.

Jesus... it ain't rocket science. Why can't some people grasp such a simple concept? Bolt's 9.58 vid shows that Tyson Gay had crazy turnover compared to his, yet he won the race and set the WR.

Hhxh: you lost, buddy. You are clearly wrong, give it up.

Trello: well done.

So you think Bolt is on some PED that Gay and Powell aren't? Unfortunately it seems like they all dope. I'm still a fan, and if Bolt is clean he's twice as good as he seems.

In any case, Part of Bolt's ability to win when it counts is his speed endurance. Tyson Gay also has an excellent top end, but Bolt could run 110 meters without slowing down. It's silly to think his legs don't help with this. He can keep his foot on he ground for longer! Duh. The forces required to make use of this potential, to move ground when already running 27 are freakish. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide if Bolt was able to get that powerful clean. My point is these forces also increase injury risk. Anyone watching Bolt's races closely can see that he runs just fast enough to win. When he lost to Blake before the Olympics it was .01, because that race didn't matter as much.

Micheal Johnson does make good points about the history of slavery in the Americas. Part of the extreme physical capabilities of top sprinters is that they do not have normal genetics.

Dowper wrote:

what is this Rojo? amateur hour?

If it ain't amateur, it's certainly "first-world inability to think critically hour."

A crazy article except it's hard to believe any of it as a huge part of is another huge lie that has been repeated about Bolt - that Bolt has worked with Angel Heredia/Hernandez.

The article claims that Angel is Bolt's coach. We've gone over this before but a boxing analyst used the term "Bolt" to refer to fast sprinters and thus people actually believed he was working with Bolt. Not true. Then it got repeated by Colin Cowherd, some columnist in Chicago, deadspin, etc.