Doping widespread in Kenya? Fresh allegations by German journalist

Kenyans are smarter than you think. You are taking their hospitality to mean they are dumb and don't understand what they are saying yes to. Kenyans and Kalenjins for that matter have diplomatic way of making you feel welcome, if you abuse that hospitality then your will go home crying. Kenyans see westerners are innocent and naive and they can play you for your pants without compromising their personality

Runthedistance wrote:

Kenyans see westerners are innocent and naive and they can play you for your pants without compromising their personality

So what you're saying is that the Kenyans scam westerners out of money whilst looking squeaky clean, even to those they are screwing over.

I'm not sure you're doing the whole 'Kenyans could never dope' thing an favours with stuff like this.

I am a track fan who loathes drug cheating and I want every form of illegal performance enhancement to be identified. However, nothing about the reporting here seems credible to me. It may be that drug cheating exists in East Africa, but this particular source does not pass the test of reliable journalism, in my humble opinion. We all have our own threshold for credibility--this one does not pass mine.

Sean Norton wrote:

I am a track fan who loathes drug cheating and I want every form of illegal performance enhancement to be identified. However, nothing about the reporting here seems credible to me. It may be that drug cheating exists in East Africa, but this particular source does not pass the test of reliable journalism, in my humble opinion. We all have our own threshold for credibility--this one does not pass mine.

I think that's because he's saying something that you don't want to hear.

Querfeldein wrote:

Hajo Seppelt, a well-known German sports journalist, has been traveling to Kenya, and claims to have found evidence of widespread doping by posing undercover as a sports agent. ...

rekrunner wrote:

The whole thing sounds pretty flimsy, especially as the best he can do is "not offer a direct proof" of doping.

Patrick Makau regularly shops at a health food store? Wow! Smoking gun shows widespread doping!

He should have stayed undercover longer.

He had to hurry back and turn in his fictituous story to glaxo, bayer and merck.

Let him go to Ethiopia next and he will be locked up without bail

Kenyans were running in the 1956 Olympics and the 1958 Empire/Commonwealth Games. The Soviets only turned up in the Olympics four years before Kenyans did. I'm not sure how most of your post relates.

And what are those things they're skipping? Mileage? Intervals? Fast steady runs? I see all of those elements in the Kenyan training profiles I've seen. In fact nothing in those profiles looks very different to me and if something is very different how would that difference relate to the possibility that they're doing different things AND using something like EPO.

You've lost me here

You say marathon has always had big money but it isnt like today when no one bothers with track any more. It used to be only studs that had retired from the track.

No, I said big money in marathons is a pretty new phenomenon and that's drawn runners to the distance who in former eras would have concentrated on track racing rather than marathons.

The sport in the mid 50s was only limited to few Kenyans. It relates in the fact that things can change faster than you think and Kenyans have no limits but opportunities. There is not a conventional wisdom among Kenyans on how quick the time can be lowered, the west puts limits and looks at different variables. Kenyans don't look at their heart rate and all those fancy numbers, they train hard and as good as they know and they go and show in a race, if they fail they come back and try again. Where in the world do you see 200 runners line up for training? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyhX-pE3Ilk. 200 runners, if 180 don't make the 20 that do will be in a class of their own. EPO? proof? you are assuming and assumptions don't get you anyway.

I'm not assuming. Find anything I've written that in any way says "I think Kenyans are using something like EPO." I'm questioning. Questions often do get you places but in this case I doubt they will. But answers to questions from people who have a vested interest in finding a particular kind of answer are not answers at all.

I have no fight to pick with you then. "Doping widespread in Kenya" those who believe so should elaborate more and give us congrete evidence rather than assumptions and allegations.

You can now watch a slightly longer version online:

http://www.wdr.de/tv/sport_inside/sendungsbeitraege/2012/0521/kenia_video.jsp

I know it is a tough ask to comment on a documentary in a foreign language, but that doesn't give you a license to dismiss the facts.

The outside of the "healthy u" branch in Nairobi where IGF-1 sits on the shelves, and where they buy EPO, is visible at about 2:40 - if AK wanted to, they would have closed it down by now. Oh, and it isn't just bragging for Muzungis, as one of you has claimed, they buy genuine EPO.

I doubt that there has been, or will be any action, as the chairman of AK appears in the video, claiming (yet again) that there's no doping problem in Kenya. That's good to know, because the IAAF medical director also appears, and says that AK doesn't do proper testing, which is why the IAAF comes in to help out - unfortunately though, they cannot do blood tests in Kenya. But it's all good, there's nothing to see their, anyway.

You are the kind of ignorant guy that would deny any other theory than the earth being flat, until it was generally accepted by every other human. The only evidence you would accept would be a law written by stupid lawyers or theologists stating that the earth is indeed not flat.Its fine, close your eyes, ignore the problem.

Runthedistance wrote:

I have no fight to pick with you then. "Doping widespread in Kenya" those who believe so should elaborate more and give us congrete evidence rather than assumptions and allegations.

I presume Hajo Seppelt has also managed to track the person(s) responsible for tampering with Dieter Baumann's toothpaste by now............

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Hajo Seppelt, a well-known German sports journalist, has been traveling to Kenya, and claims to have found evidence of widespread doping by posing undercover as a sports agent. ...

However, you are forgetting that the huge influx of African

talent started in the late 80s. If you want to compare the

the 70s with the 90s with now, you have to single out Caucasians. Otherwise you will probably comparing apples

and oranges. This essential point doesn't exclude doping ouf course!!!!!!

subcutaneous injection is also the most dangerous method. It is the only method that has caused PRCA (pure red cell aplasia).

iv and infusion are the most common techniques, whether it be among athletes or in the medical venues.

Melo Anthony wrote:

Jealous much?

Tired, worn out and dead.

There is too much jealousy and hate directed at Kenya.

Kenya does not show the classic signs of systematic doping that have happened at other countries. Below are the classic signs of systematic or widespread doping.

1. A country that previously had no tradition of doing well suddenly starts producing a ridiculously higher number of world beaters (China in the 90s)

2. The women perform much better than the men (Russia and China)

3. The runners skip Diamond league meets and only show up to run at the Olympics or World Championships (Russia)

4. Doping is widespread not just in track but in many other sports (USA with baseball, boxing, MMA)

5. Many of the best athletes are known dopers (USA with marion Jones, Gatlin, Lance Amstrong, Bonds, Clemence, etc)

6. Runners confess that they were forced into doping by the government (East Germany)

7. A country utterly dominates a sport with no plausible scientific explanation (East Germany)

Is it possible that some Kenyans dope ? Maybe. Is it widespread ? NO !