This is the most appropriate of all actions. The runner and the friend should both be excluded from future Cowtown events. No transfers, no bandits.
This is the most appropriate of all actions. The runner and the friend should both be excluded from future Cowtown events. No transfers, no bandits.
I know the friend that provided the bib. He works for the running store, and most likely received the entry as comped by the Race Organizers.
As a race organizer, I would especially be angered by the transfer of a elite comped entry ,and the embarrassment this will cause for many years.
What about the runners who finished in 3rd thru the rest of the field? Their legitimate contests are also sullied by the outcome.
Races are ridiculously expensive these days. It's outrageous. 200 bucks for a t-shirt and some food and a trophy? No thank you. Bandit 1, Bandit all.
scott downard is an idiot, why am i not surprised
Chisholm wrote:
I know the friend that provided the bib. He works for the running store, and most likely received the entry as comped by the Race Organizers.
As a race organizer, I would especially be angered by the transfer of a elite comped entry ,and the embarrassment this will cause for many years.
What about the runners who finished in 3rd thru the rest of the field? Their legitimate contests are also sullied by the outcome.
Who is he.....the friend? He is as guilty as Scott Downard.....maybe more so.
electron1661 wrote:
Races are ridiculously expensive these days. It's outrageous. 200 bucks for a t-shirt and some food and a trophy? No thank you. Bandit 1, Bandit all.
Cowtown marathon was $100, less if you registered before Nov 15, more if you registered after Jan 1. They were about $105 for their ultra, $80 for their half marathon, $30 for their 10k, $25 for their 5k. They also offered discounted rates for teams of 5 or more. Given that this is a race in a big city I don't find those entry fees out of line with the national market, or unexpected given the costs to put on a race in your typical city. You can argue that the national market is too expensive, but that is what races cost to enter these days-deal with it, don't race, produce your own races and charge what you want, or find a new sport.
He should be behind bars.
codger wrote:
Also, Downard perpetuated a fraud.
I was thinking the runner was more likely guilty of trespassing, if the course was closed. Maybe some misdemeanor theft if he took water along the course or food at the end.
2 sides wrote:
Why would they do it? The same reason they do anything that participants appreciate. It makes the event as a whole more appealing. Not to mention, if you're putting on a race, seems like you'd like to have people that want to, participate.
How in the world does this make a race more appealing? I run plenty of races and I don't check to see if they allow transfers before I sign up. You ever hear someone say "Oh I'm not going to do that race they don't allow transfers".
does he really need to? wrote:
Could you show me some case law to prove that the waiver is anything other than a meaningless formality? As far as I can see, the participant is willingly engaging in an activity that carries known risks. I can't imagine that the race, the RD, or anyone else would be liable unless the injury is the direct result of negligence. And if the injury is the result of negligence, then the waiver isn't going to help you.
The waiver doesn't void liability, but it does provide a first line of defense that can avoid a serious suit. Often the fact that a waiver was signed will scare off any attorney's trying to take the case because there's a good chance it'll get tossed.
There's also a 2nd factor, which is the event's willingness to enforce the conditions of the waiver. For example, if your waiver says "due to insurance reasons no baby joggers are allowed" but the race director announces at the start "all people with baby joggers line up in the back" then he's announced that they're ignoring provisions of the waiver. The insurance carrier can use that to terminate coverage leaving the event wide open to liability claims.
So specific to this case if the guy hadn't been DQ'd when it was clear he was an unregistered participant that could have placed the event at risk. Had there been a claim the carrier could say he didn't follow the terms and conditions of the policy, which surely had a provision that all participants would sign a waiver. Poof, no insurance, and very likely increased difficulty getting some the next year.
Sound inanely technical? That's because it's practically word for word from an insurance seminar for event directors.
The race director certainly has to DQ a winning bandit.
However, people who get angry about it are ass squirts.
vnc wrote:
The race director certainly has to DQ a winning bandit.
However, people who get angry about it are ass squirts.
Lets Run should have a "Like" button. Like!
The explanation he gave convinces me that he is a fuking moron....thanks for clearing things up.
I am mystified as to why this is getting so much coverage. I swear, Cowtown hasn't gotten this much publicity in it's entire 30-something year history.
That said, most of you are missing the point entirely. Transfer of entry was not and never was an issue because the race wasn't sold out. If this Downing guy wanted to enter, he could have easily done so at the expo the day before the race. If he intended to run (even if just as a pacer), he should have paid up and entered. As it is, he is guilty of theft of services.
He wasn't really disqualified, because he was never qualified in the first place. The race director simply enforced the fact that he wasn't qualified to win the race, and rightfully so. He never entered, so he was never qualified to compete for the win. If I were the RD, I'd ban him from entering for X years in the future.
Thanks for posting the link to this interview. I'm not sure if Running times edited what is published out of a larger interview, but I don't think Scott comes off very well in his responses. Sometimes you say something one way and when it's written down it reads very differently, maybe that's it?
This in particular doesn't make sense to me: "I work with Jerry and was aware that he had entered the race in October but wasn't going to be using the entry. I knew the entry was comp’ed — I don’t know if he knew the race director or how he got a hold of an elite entry."
So...if you work with Jerry and you knew Jerry's bib was comped, why didn't you just ask Jerry how he got a comped entry and follow up with whoever Jerry got comped by? I'm sure Jerry didn't just open his mail one day and find a mysterious comped bib in an envelope.
A 29 year old experienced runner really ought to know better. We're not talking about some 15 year old kid who has never seen a race before.
Fort Worth street rodent wrote:...If I were the RD, I'd ban him from entering for X years in the future.
The American Birkebeiner ski race has what I'd consider a pretty good solution. If you race with someone else's bib and get caught you AND the person you got the bib from have to pay a $150 fee to be reinstated to do any of their future races. That's BOTH people pay up. They also reserve the right to ban you and your friend for an undeterminate number of years. Given that the Birkie is the most prestigious XC ski race in the US I'd think those disincentives would work well.
I agree that the interview didn't help him any. It makes it seem like he feels entitled because he's an elite. If you're an elite athlete, you should know the procedure to get in a race. If not, pay to register like everyone else. His friend is also at fault for giving away his comped entry that was specifically for him. This isn't the worst crime in race history, but think next time.
Fort Worth street rodent wrote:
I am mystified as to why this is getting so much coverage. I swear, Cowtown hasn't gotten this much publicity in it's entire 30-something year history.
Yep, and it's kind of a shame. The race organizers actually did a really good job with this year's race. The event has a very spotty history with bad management and organization, and this year, they really stepped it up and got it right - only to have their efforts overshadowed by a controversy. It's too bad that the actions of one selfish individual overshadowed the fine efforts of so many volunteers and organizers who did a very good job.
txRUNNERgirl wrote:
It makes it seem like he feels entitled because he's an elite.
You think 2:31 is elite? That's not even an elite WOMEN'S time anymore.