Whoops! George Hincapie gives up Lance

I understand, and it seems spotty. I also said I do think lance used. However, it seems prudent to wait for the official grand jury testimony of hincapie to come out, or for him to corroborate a story such as the one 60 minutes did. I have no doubt it will come out, and lance may or may not spend time in jail.

26mi235 wrote:

Did Hincapie talk to CBS? Are you sure that they have the story 100% correct; what is their source (committing a felony, I think) and are they telling exactly the story of the testimony?

Hincapie did not talk to CBS. The net of the CBS report is that Hincapie appeared before the ongoing FDA grand jury investigation in Los Angeles and testified unfavorably to Lance. There is no way to be "sure" the report is accurate since the testimony is officially secret. However, the history of these leaks is that they do turn out to be accurate.

The source of the leak is of course undisclosed since the leak is in violation of federal rule. Very likely from the prosecution side. The punishment for a leak, if the perpretrator is found out, is generally a contempt of court charge, which may be civil or criminal. Even if criminal, contempt is a misdeamenor not a felony.

I told you so.

UCI, of course, knew all along, but weren't/aren't willing to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

Same with Bolt/Gay/etc. and USATF/IOC.

I can't tell you how ridiculous it is to have STEVE MULLINGS running 9.89 in MAY.

Athletics and cycling can be added to weightlifting, football, rowing, baseball, combat sports, and whatever sport you care to name, as terminally infected with metastatic doping.

Even sailing/yachting is full of it. Both Masters athletes and HS kids are perfused with PED's. Nobody really cares; only lip service is provided as a response.

It's like illegal mining, foresting, fishing, money laundering, crime, etc.--it is so widespread that nothing effective can be done from a policing standpoint.

The best that can be hoped is that an educational campaign works, supported by a few select prosecutions aimed at illustrating the potential penalties and fall from grace that can happen.

Big deal, nobody really cares. As the old saying goes, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. With the recent glorification of criminal activity and attitude, real social censure no longer exists for dopers.

The world is a zoo.

trollism wrote:

Maybe they're all just coming clean because they're worried about the rapture tomorrow.

Thats not funny, Woke up yesterday and my fish was dead. IT CAME TRUE!!

And the Nike/Adidas/Puma/Gatorade etc. owners laugh ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!!

HAHAHAHAHA

Hey kids - who wants to be our next prostitute to glamorize and SELL all this sweatshop gear?!?

You want to be rich rich rich - we'll pay you tons of $$$$$!!!

Its the most important thing in the world - TO BE SUPERFREAKING RICH!!!

And famous - SUPERFREAKING FAMOUS! Now THAT matters!

Impossible is nothing!

Watch our commercials! BELIEVE in the slick fantasy we manufacture - for you!

Just do it!

HAHAHAHAHA

Limpy McGimpy wrote:

Of course U.S. endurance athletes have SOOOO much better ability to evade detection compared to say, Marion Jones or Justin Gatlin. They are in with the Illuminati and Central Banking Committee and were in on the destruction of the Twin Towers.

Marion Jones never failed a drug test.

What ticks me off is this is what our govt spends time and money on???? We have got much bigger issues than worrying about Lance, Barry, or whoever.

If cycling, baseball, football, or whoever can't police their own league than maybe we should have govt run sports teams.

I pointed this out before: Lance to my knowledge only started altitude training (CO) after his comeback. Why? Because it wasn't necessary before thanks to EPO. But in his comeback, I believe he was actually clean - way too many folks trying to take him down.

Government is in up to its neck in pro sports.

The major leagues are granted an effective monopoly by governmental action--that is from where the power for things like Congressional inquiries arises, and why the major leagues get preferential attention in state legislatures, for example.

Because they create/allow the system, government has a responsibility to manage the system.

My answer is for them to get out of the business entirely.

The USOC is the one place I think government should be involved in sports, combined with the necessary encouragement and approval of the various national federations in their efforts to comply with IOC rules.

Yet she was "detected" anyway. Just like Regina.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Limpy McGimpy wrote:

Of course U.S. endurance athletes have SOOOO much better ability to evade detection compared to say, Marion Jones or Justin Gatlin. They are in with the Illuminati and Central Banking Committee and were in on the destruction of the Twin Towers.

Marion Jones never failed a drug test.

What's confusing? CBS apparently got the info from leaked testimony. Hincapie didn't say anything that was not true....he couched it very well.

its the end

If you have noticed, everyone that has said things against Lance has doped themselves or bought the stuff with and without him. They also mention that everyone in the sport does it and the doping throws it under the rug.

They are just mad that they doped and didn't win. Lance may or may have not done it, but if he did than he is the best of the dopers. They were all in the same playing field, they were al doping and they didn't get the results Lance did.

numiler22 wrote:

If you have noticed, everyone that has said things against Lance has doped themselves or bought the stuff with and without him. They also mention that everyone in the sport does it and the doping throws it under the rug.

They are just mad that they doped and didn't win. Lance may or may have not done it, but if he did than he is the best of the dopers. They were all in the same playing field, they were al doping and they didn't get the results Lance did.

And apparently they didn't have enough money to pay off postive tests. Apparently you haven't noticed, not everyone that has said things against Armstrong has doped. Look up Betsy Andreu, or what about his former masseuse, or his former mechanic. Or are they are all bitter and jealous as Lance claims?

The mafia always makes sure to pay for college tuitions, hospitals and other sundry favors so that idiots will come out of the woodwork in the mafioso's defense when he is eventually busted.

And Armstrong employed an army of PR and legal advisors to advise him in matters like pro-active philanthropy because it was inevitable that the dung would hit the fan.

Hell, even Bin Laden supporters and one US senator claim that his philanthropy mitigates his other activities.

It's a dodge as old as the planet.

"I never failed a test," rather than 'I never doped' is clearly a professionally advised response.

Reminds me of Hillary Clinton's "That will never be proven"(not, I did not do that) when confronted with evidence of her white collar crime days in Arkansas.

Armstrong is a thief, pure and simple, who lives in a mansion and is hailed as a philanthropist and humanitarian for convincing others to pony up money for a good cause.

At least the mafia has the decency to use their own money after they steal it from hard working joes.

Thought I probably shouldn't start a whole new thread for this:

"Italian police carried out a search at the RadioShack team hotel in Falcade on the Giro d’Italia rest day Monday, a day after Tyler Hamilton, on the CBS show “60 Minutes,” accused former teammate Lance Armstrong of participating in a sophisticated doping program, according to The Associated Press."

It was unclear if the search was related to the investigation into Michele Ferrari, a banned Italian physician who was once Armstrong’s training adviser.

The page says it's more about Yaroslav Popovych, but of course it's all very connected - Popovych was on Discovery with Armstrong, now he's on Armstrong's RadioShack. Brunyeel, Armstrong, Hincapie, Popovych, Ferrari. It's like a big doping parade.

numiler22 wrote:

Lance may or may have not done it, but if he did than he is the best of the dopers.

That's what his tombstone should read "Best of the Dopers".

Of course, UCI rejects Hamilton's statement...

numiler22 wrote:

If you have noticed, everyone that has said things against Lance has doped themselves or bought the stuff with and without him. They also mention that everyone in the sport does it and the doping throws it under the rug.

They are just mad that they doped and didn't win. Lance may or may have not done it, but if he did than he is the best of the dopers. They were all in the same playing field, they were al doping and they didn't get the results Lance did.

Since there is always an idiot that makes this argument, I will re-post what "doping culture" wrote earlier. There ARE clean cyclists, and people like Lance ruin their careers by furthering the drug problem in the sport:

doping "culture" wrote:

I am a former professional cyclist. I competed briefly in Europe for a pro-continental team. I wasn't very good but I did see a lot of clean athletes trying to break through and I just want to put to rest this idea that lance doped in a culture of doping so it was a level playing field.

YES it was a culture of doping and YES if all his TDF results were nullified his successor would almost certainly also be doped.

1) However, there are hundreds of clean pro cyclists who, skipped college to pursue a dream, also biked 4-6 hours day, and earned 15-25k a year for a relatively short period.

I have friends who train like mad men and are unemployed or drawing a meager wage because doped riders jump past them and suck up money.

If lance et al. had not doped there would have been CLEAN athletes who would have extended their careers and increased their wages. They wouldnt have won the tour de France but they would have been more competitive in races. Velonews has a report on a rider right now who quit postal because he decided he did not want to do drugs and felt he had no other choice.

2) Dopers suck money out of the sport. Teams fold and clean cyclists, team managers, mechanics, and soigneurs lose their jobs when these scandals come out. For every doping scandal there is a financial fall out that hurts people that are just trying to make a decent living working in a sport they are passionate about. When Floyd Landis's scandal broke, I was actively seeking a pro contract, and saw first hand how the scandal had a ripple effect that went all the way down to the grass roots of the sport. MOney that would have been there for young developing cyclists disappeared.

3) Lance has not just denied doping he has vindictively destroyed careers, smeared people in the name of extending lies. He does not deserve a break in any way. He seems to have a Godfather morality where anyone who breaks away from the "family" deserves to be destroyed.

Take the example of Simeoni, when Lance chased down that breakaway. I cannot even begin to express how crucial those early breaks are in the TDF for a riders career. Getting in the early break, something that is never shown on TV, is incredibly difficult on so many levels. When a rider gets in a break, on a TDF stage where the GC teams are trying to let a break go, that is their BIG shot. Their Eminem lose yourself moment. When Lance chased down Simeoni he was essentially destroying a man's once a year opportunity and directly harming his ability to put food on his kids table all because he decided to start telling the truth. He also directly affected everyone else in that breakaway who wasn't even involved. When Simeoni dropped out of the breakaway so Telekom would stop chasing it was an incredibly honorable thing to do where he sacrificed this career changing opportunity so that his breakaway companions could have a shot at a life changing TDF stage win.

He has dragged Betsy Andreu's name through the mud all because she decided not to be a wife who accepts immorality. She decided not to silently accept a culture of doping. She's not even a cyclist but Lance has publicly trashed her name and drug her through the mud because she told the truth.

He has trashed journalists, former employees, newspapers et al. who have only told the truth.

He lied in order to get a multi million dollar bonus from a company that had insured his bonus for winning the the TDF. He cost that company millions of dollars in legal fees and the pay out and don't think that didn't cost honest people jobs.

Lance Armstrong is an amazing athlete, yes. But the man has done things that are reprehensible to continue lying. Lets not make excuses for him because he's a great athlete."