Yeah, that's no way he's only 17. Have you seen pics of him? No doubt he's an amazing athlete but I don't think he will break Bekele's world record.
Yeah, that's no way he's only 17. Have you seen pics of him? No doubt he's an amazing athlete but I don't think he will break Bekele's world record.
transmara wrote:
The West is in denial and they will never never compete with Kenyans and Ethiopians at higher level. The west is still stuck in formalities and rely mostly on conventional wisdom. You still stuck in the 60s and 70s, well you need to get over that. You people need to wake up and realise that you suck in long distance running. Stop relying on Ryan Hall, Rupp, Solinsky, Meb etc. These runners do their best to compete but the sheer number of Kenyans and Ethiopian runners will overshadow anything these guys do. Running Formalities are holding the west back, you still seem to searching for best practises in running, well keep on searching. Kenyans and Ethiopians are way beyond formalities. Instead of looking for ways to catch up you spent alot of your time accusing people of dopping. The records are there to be broken and young kenyans are hiding the roads everyday at 6 am not so they look cute on the track but to go for world records. Take you pills bc you are about to be shocked again.
Excuse me!!
I never said anything about this guy taking drugs or suggested that western distance athletes were as good as Kenyans/Ethiopians.
Of course Kenya and Ethiopia have many more great distance runners than the rest of the world combined, and that's mainly due to a genetic advantage that they're born with. BUT regardless, it's been illustrated time and time again, that many of their (Kenyan) juniors have lied about their age; whether it be through their agents or not; and this should not be tolerated. They have enough talent as it is, without sending someone who is more like 22, to compete against a load of 17 and 18 year olds.
If they can't produce a genuine birth certificate, then they shouldn't be eligible to run in junior competition. It wouldn't be tolerated if the competitor was from Europe or the US.
deanouk wrote:
transmara wrote:The West is in denial and they will never never compete with Kenyans and Ethiopians at higher level. The west is still stuck in formalities and rely mostly on conventional wisdom. You still stuck in the 60s and 70s, well you need to get over that. You people need to wake up and realise that you suck in long distance running. Stop relying on Ryan Hall, Rupp, Solinsky, Meb etc. These runners do their best to compete but the sheer number of Kenyans and Ethiopian runners will overshadow anything these guys do. Running Formalities are holding the west back, you still seem to searching for best practises in running, well keep on searching. Kenyans and Ethiopians are way beyond formalities. Instead of looking for ways to catch up you spent alot of your time accusing people of dopping. The records are there to be broken and young kenyans are hiding the roads everyday at 6 am not so they look cute on the track but to go for world records. Take you pills bc you are about to be shocked again.
Excuse me!!
I never said anything about this guy taking drugs or suggested that western distance athletes were as good as Kenyans/Ethiopians.
Of course Kenya and Ethiopia have many more great distance runners than the rest of the world combined, and that's mainly due to a genetic advantage that they're born with. BUT regardless, it's been illustrated time and time again, that many of their (Kenyan) juniors have lied about their age; whether it be through their agents or not; and this should not be tolerated. They have enough talent as it is, without sending someone who is more like 22, to compete against a load of 17 and 18 year olds.
If they can't produce a genuine birth certificate, then they shouldn't be eligible to run in junior competition. It wouldn't be tolerated if the competitor was from Europe or the US.
___________________________________________________________
^While I somewhat agree, the simple fact of the matter is that there are hundreds of 17 year olds Ethopians/Kenyans that could probably still beat Verzbicas(or other athletes) in a race. Making them produce a birth certificate doesn't help any of the other countries at all and simply takes away from real Kenyan junior athletes from competiting in these competitions.
It is unfair either way, but in my opinion it wouldn't affect American distance running so they might as the well keep it as it is to keep things fair.
how is it possible? some combination of the wrong age and the right drugs........who is training this guy, Rosa?
The West is in denial and they will never never compete with Kenyans and Ethiopians at higher level...........
Did you ever see a picture of Frank Shorter losing to an Arican? No, because there are none! When the playing field is level, as in no drugs used by the Africans, the Americans did and can beat them on a regular basis.
Drug deniers can't answer the question: How did the Africans got so much better since the 1970's 1980's...You would say better coaching? I would say their coaches, Hermans and Rosa, are big time drug coaches....
someone other than else wrote:
The trolls refuse to believe the age of anyone who is faster than any American is.
Sammy Ngatia is 50 and can run 31 minutes for a 5k. I'm sure the trolls thought he was 25-30 when he was actually 20. The trolls would today claim Sammy was really on 40, not 50.
Kenyans are the only people who can be older when younger, and younger when older.
I don't care how old the latest Koech is, but I am going to guess that you meant "Sammy Ngatia is 50 and can run 13 minutes for a 5k".
If that is what you meant, good for him. But if he IS 50, then when he WAS 20 there was no such thing as a troll because it was 1981 and there was no internet.
Think about it.
Also, no 17-year-old OR 50-year-old can run 13:00 for a 5k. I can't prove it, it is just what I believe because I am not retarded. Live with it.
transmara wrote:
Forgive the poor Kenyans , they do not know what they are doing. They do not have shoes, no food, no money, they do not know their age, they cannot read, you just have to hold their hands and help them cross the street, they have not seen a car, please feel bad for them. They do not know what a training programm is, they just run laps arond the track and that is about it. He was probably running away thinking somebody was gonna catch him and punish him, he did not meant to break a record or run like that. He is sorry for broken souls that he has caused. He took some pills before the race, didn't know what it was and for what. He was feeling energize and sweaty after he finish and he did not want to talk to anyone. He does not have a sponsor, looks like he was running with a "NIKE" top, don't know what the bottom was. Please don't take it to heart, next time he will slow down and let those seniors go infront and he promised not to pass them. Poor Kenyans. Somebody help them with education or something. They are not suppose to be running like this
Please stop writing things like this.
Isiah is a high school student in Kericho District. After he won his youth title in 2009 he didn't competed very much (Worl XC, 5k in Rabat, then some XC in europe & kenya) and focused on his studies (and keep training well). And if you had seen him raced before in Kenya or at World Champ (despite of his age, i agree we are never sure with africans) the race he run yesterday didn't come fron nowhere... After saturday's race he may change is mind to be more concerns in athletics, but we will see.
http://runafricadotcom.wordpress.com/Transmara, you need to get your story straight.
Do these Kenyans genuinely not know how old they are because they haven't invented calenders and stuff like that in Africa yet or is it a cynical ploy to defraud the sport?
In Gent, Isaiah Koech set his second world junior indoor best of the week, running 7:37.50 for 3000m. Pretty ridiculous after running his first ever indoor race (quite fast) on Friday. His calves must have been sore!
A lot of people have posted on this thread something to the effect of "12:53 is fast, period, why does it matter how old he is?"
Do you really not understand why his age is relevant to the argument??? Let me spell it out for you: 12:53 at age 17 shows ridiculous upside and someone who is likely to take down Bekele's records win gold medals.
Take the same time for someone at age 25 and the likelihood of being a world beater goes down significantly.
Dimitrius, we're all used to Kenyan juniors running extremely fast and never touching those PBs again, even as they reach what we Americans would consider their "prime" years.
Consider the case of Eliud Kipchoge. While he's actually showed great longevity and consistency compared to many Kenyan runners, do you realize how long ago it was that he ran 12:46 (#4 all time) for 5000m? Coming up on seven years in a few months! And he's only 26 right now - the same age as Solinsky. What would one expect Kipchoge to have run by now - 12:26? Bekele's world record in the 5000m also came at the age of 21.
If he was to e-mail a PDF attachment to all of you of his birth certificate with a sprinkling of photographs, testimonies from teachers and other professionals, I wonder what some of you would cry about then ? You wouldn't be able to cry about his age again.
You'd HAVE TO try another strategy. EPO, altitude,... ?
If someone is simply better it can never just be left at that. It has to be examined, questioned, analysed....basically there is a DOGGED attempt to destroy it.
Name me one sub 13 Kenyan or Ethiopian who's PB comes from their first ever indoor race. You won't be able to do. Statistically this guy is obviously likely to improve, regardless of age, and even if he only improves by a few seconds, he will be one of the very best in the world.
Sorry man we do not have calenders in Kenya. Lol, Haters. "WARNING" Time after time you are going to see things that seem unreal or abnormal, You will see a new guy come in and run ridiculous times, you will see a well known runner loose to a new comer and you will say "WOW" don't panic, It happens alot in Kenya. Only in Kenya, will you see Paul kipkoech a well known athlete over 10000m,(God rest his soul)a world champion Rome, Italy 1987 loose to a new comer Paul Bitok, who run barefoot, no running tools whatsoever, with just school khaki shorts over 10000 meters at kipkeino sports ground in 1992 and went on to win a silver medal in atlanta in 1996. It happens often in Kenya. We are not shocked when isaih Koech runs 12.53 and he is only 17. There are a lot of other young Kenyans who given the chance will beat him tomorrow. The reason why you don't see Kenyans going crazy after running wonderful time is bc they understand that there is no need to celebrate bc there is another Kenyan who will beat me tomorrow. Dear friends and fans of the sport, brace yourselfs once in a while just bc things like this are going to happen often. ONLY IN KENYA.
Calling Doctor Rosa! Calling Doctor Rosa!
newname wrote:Also, no 17-year-old OR 50-year-old can run 13:00 for a 5k. I can't prove it, it is just what I believe because I am not retarded. Live with it.
this 18y ole front-ran a 13'02 in a real race not a time-trial - a time which wouda been nearer 12'55( big wr ) in a circuit race with pacers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exKOEkibVYwSammy Ngatia is 50 and can run 31 minutes for a 10k.My bad.
someone other than else wrote:
The trolls refuse to believe the age of anyone who is faster than any American is.
Sammy Ngatia is 50 and can run 31 minutes for a 5k. I'm sure the trolls thought he was 25-30 when he was actually 20. The trolls would today claim Sammy was really on 40, not 50.
Kenyans are the only people who can be older when younger, and younger when older.
newname wrote:
I don't care how old the latest Koech is, but I am going to guess that you meant "Sammy Ngatia is 50 and can run 13 minutes for a 5k".
If that is what you meant, good for him. But if he IS 50, then when he WAS 20 there was no such thing as a troll because it was 1981 and there was no internet.
Think about it.
Also, no 17-year-old OR 50-year-old can run 13:00 for a 5k. I can't prove it, it is just what I believe because I am not retarded. Live with it.
FYI, when Alan Webb ran a 3:53 mile in highschool he was really 25 years old rather than the 18yrs is DOB billed him as. The only way to really find out how old they really are is to cut them in half and count the rings. Until then, Isiah should act his age and start running 15 minute 5ks and 9 minute 3ks until he is 24.
jersyjon wrote:
The West is in denial and they will never never compete with Kenyans and Ethiopians at higher level...........
Did you ever see a picture of Frank Shorter losing to an Arican? No, because there are none! When the playing field is level, as in no drugs used by the Africans, the Americans did and can beat them on a regular basis.
Drug deniers can't answer the question: How did the Africans got so much better since the 1970's 1980's...You would say better coaching? I would say their coaches, Hermans and Rosa, are big time drug coaches....
The sport wasn't professional then. There was no real living to be made. There was no "them." There weren't droves of hopeful athletes gathering in Eldoret or Bekoji with dreams of buying a house from their winnings.
I'm afraid I don't find your logic sound at all. If drugs are what make all the countless Kenyans and Ethiopians so fast, it would follow that Americans (no strangers to drug use) would be just as fast. It's more likely that Shorter's contemporaries were the more pervasive drug users (in fact, we know that to be the case) because there were fewer tests and tests were only administered at major championships. Random, out of competition testing didn't begin until after the Seoul Olympics, and it's only been in recent years that independent drug testing agencies have emerged, which require constant updates on athletes' whereabouts in order to keep any potential cheats wary of being asked to submit a sample shortly after using.
trollism wrote:
Transmara, you need to get your story straight.
Do these Kenyans genuinely not know how old they are because they haven't invented calenders and stuff like that in Africa yet or is it a cynical ploy to defraud the sport?
I think it's likely a combination of some children be born away from facilities that would keep records, as well as Kenya's mandatory retirement age of 60 for all civil servants (previously it was 55).