Ryan Hall Out of Chicago

Did I read somewhere that he eats a high 30 gram protein bar and a MONSTER energy drink for breakfast before a major marathon?

You guys are all so original!

coachkritter - "It's God's will"

fgfd - "What you got there is a relgious boy/guitter"

NoFatty - "Nobody wants to hear about your religion Ryan."

WhiskeyRiver - "I for one, am glad. I get so sick of him and all his hippie, god, running,love bullshit."

phony - "So he doesn't trust that God will make him fast on race day despite bad workouts? What? He doesn't have the world record? I would think that if God is a great as Ryan says he is that he would have given him the power to break the world record by now. Sounds like this guy's a phony."

Rickey Henderson - "Why didn't he just pray to God more? I thought God could fix this stuff. Maybe God isn't all that great."

that seems wise. Sometimes workouts/races are bad before very good marathons, but he did not perform up to par at Philly. He may try to run New York instead, but he needed a break from marathoning and should really have tried a track campaign to get back in touch with his speed, which was the basis for the 59:43 and 2:06:17.

For such a religious guy, he sure pulls out a lot.

Well he says he wants to run 2:05 eventually so I don't see how a 2:10 at NY is going to help him get there. He can call it a "re-debut" if he wants but it will be his fifth marathon and as others have mentioned it is far more common for elites to run their life time pr's early in their marathon careers. If he's doing it for the money I understand, he does have two kids now. Long term I don't think it is going to help and could end up hurting him.

OK, now that was actually funny.

Thomas Pain wrote:

You guys are all so original!

coachkritter - "It's God's will"

fgfd - "What you got there is a relgious boy/guitter"

NoFatty - "Nobody wants to hear about your religion Ryan."

WhiskeyRiver - "I for one, am glad. I get so sick of him and all his hippie, god, running,love bullshit."

phony - "So he doesn't trust that God will make him fast on race day despite bad workouts? What? He doesn't have the world record? I would think that if God is a great as Ryan says he is that he would have given him the power to break the world record by now. Sounds like this guy's a phony."

Rickey Henderson - "Why didn't he just pray to God more? I thought God could fix this stuff. Maybe God isn't all that great."

These posters aren't original? How about Hall? He says the same damn thing in every interview. God this, god that. It's a joke. He sets himself up for the type of ridicule the above posters are dishing out.

Why is there more pressure racing a marathon then racing a 10k or a 5k or XC? Why do people say that he needs to run these other races to enjoy racing again? Why isn't a marathon enjoyable? The people saying these things are probably 5k/10k runners.

There's no way that Hall is the sole author of his tweets and blog posts these days - they are too well-written. Hall's first few blog posts (around the 2008 Olympics if I remember right) showed that he was a terrible writer, even by internet standards, and had people questioning his Stanford degree. The lack of errors in his recent blogs and tweets shows that he's clearly getting help with them, or they're being entirely ghost-written. But it's not because he's too busy. It's because he can't write worth a damn.

werty wrote:

The problem with this kind of thinking (that is...he has plenty of time to go) is that the marathon is just different - almost everyone gets their marathon PR in their first 4 marathons - beyond that and your body and/or brain get all messed up.

So I guess the WR doesn't count?

Haile G broke ran 2:03:59 in his 9th marathon.

He also broke the WR in the 7th marathon of his career.

Haile's career marathons up to the WR are as follows:

2:06:35 NR 3FloraLondon14 Apr 2005

2:06:20 NR 1INGAmsterdam16 Oct 2006

2:09:05 9FloraLondon23 Apr 2006

2:05:56 NR 1RealBerlin24 Sep 2006

2:06:52 1Fukuoka3 Dec 2006

DNF FloraLondon 2007

22 Apr 2:04:26 WR 1RealBerlin30 Sep 2007

2:04:53 1Stand ChartDubai18 Jan 2008

2:03:59 WR 1RealBerlin28 Sep 2008

Your are right that often times people's PRs come early in their careers but your statement is certainly too sweeping.

"Ryan and his coach Terrance Mahon know what they are doing. This endless cycle of half marathon/marathon has beat him up." - asicsmiler

Seriously? Is that why he is sucking right now?

I believe that his legs have just given out on him. He's been running good chunk of mileage since HS (10-11 years ago?). He has already run plenty of marathons and halfs. Some would say you only so many marathons in you before the body just fails to perform at the highest level.

He really needs to get back to shorter distance running. This is what happens when our best talents go to marathoning too early: physical and mental burnout. After a two year stint in shorter distances he can try a 'thon again, fresh. Follow Ritz's lead - it's all right there. It works.

And lastly - he has way too many obligations. Drop them and go back to monk-like training. Most Kenyans leave the comforts of their home and train in groups for months at a time - without seeing their families. This is dedication.

The guy needs a break. He is only human.

I'm guessing that Sara is pretty smart, and does some editing for him.

rojo wrote:

So I guess the WR doesn't count?

Haile G broke ran 2:03:59 in his 9th marathon.

He also broke the WR in the 7th marathon of his career.

Haile's career marathons up to the WR are as follows:

2:06:35 NR 3FloraLondon14 Apr 2005

2:06:20 NR 1INGAmsterdam16 Oct 2006

2:09:05 9FloraLondon23 Apr 2006

2:05:56 NR 1RealBerlin24 Sep 2006

2:06:52 1Fukuoka3 Dec 2006

DNF FloraLondon 2007

22 Apr 2:04:26 WR 1RealBerlin30 Sep 2007

2:04:53 1Stand ChartDubai18 Jan 2008

2:03:59 WR 1RealBerlin28 Sep 2008

Your are right that often times people's PRs come early in their careers but your statement is certainly too sweeping.

The original poster was being too sweeping, but I think he was saying that a lot of people PR early, and fade, and he thinks Ryan fits that mold.

Haile seems to have a fairly unique, insatiable drive. It's just a different psychology. There are other people out there like Haile (psychologically), but I don't think Hall is one of them.

McMillan is the coach I'd suggest. He's done wonders for Brett Gotcher & Paige Higgins and the Flagstaff group has access to good facilities and support.

Hall has problems within himself that he may never change/give up: reliance on the watch, refusal to engage in the race tactics of the moment, mental breakdowns regarding expectations, overly brash predictions, reliance on religion to solve his running, etc. The one thing he can change easily is his coach - Mahon is a hack.

His marathon athletes have regressed pretty significantly. Kastor had a meteoric rise and has flamed-out ever since. Mahon's wife, Jen Rhines, was a track runner with no speed/kick, that swtiched to the marathon and was decent, but has now switched back to the 5k and finishes in the last half of every race she enters. Hall hasn't been competitive in a race since his Olympic Trials victory.... Even though Meb is part of the Mammouth Track Club, he isn't coached by Mahon, so Mahon can't take credit for his victory at NYC. Hall's wife, Sara, hasn't won a race as far as I can remember and I'm pretty sure she's just part of the sponsorship package of Ryan with Asics, so she's also a bit of a bust. Who else does Mahon have..... Scott Bauhs & Josh Cox.... um yeah, so he has nobody running at a high level anymore except Anna Pierce & Morgan Uceny - both middle distance.

Kalid was 4th and Meb was pretty hurt going in - he just gutted out the race but was never seriously going to be able to race 26.2 on that day.

Hall was the clear favorite for the trials with all the mounting injuries of the top runners, so yeah, knowing they were ALL hurt meant there was less pressure.

Ulrich wrote:

Flagstaff group has access to good facilities and support.

But they have to pay Greg to piss in the woods. This group is a 100% revenue source for Greg.

gfdagagdf wrote:

Here's an interesting question: Who else in the country can coach Hall? Is there anyone with the experience? The Hansons have never worked with someone as talented as Hall, nor with anyone with such huge expectations. A lot of posters have indicated that one of Hall's problems has been all the pressure on him. Salazar seems like the man to go to for that--plenty of experience with pressure. But, as posters have pointed out, no real record with elite marathoners (Kara Goucher and Dan Browne notwithstanding).

Hmm...What about Bill Squires? He still around? Maybe he can dust off some old training secrets tucked away in his attic. Worked pretty darned well for Bill Rodgers/Dick Beardsley/Greg Meyer/Alberto Salazar.

Who has the experience to coach Hall? I do (and hundreds of other coaches).

Coaching is coaching. Running is running. The idea that things drastically change when things get really fast is ludicrous.

I agree that dealing with expectations changes a bit at the very elite level but coaching does not. I always laugh when people act like you need some super badge to work with really elite level people.

The fact of the matter is Mark Wetmore was still Mark Wetmore when he was coaching at Seton Hall - he just didn't have the same talent. Alberto Salazar was constantly ripped when first started with Oregon project when he didn't have the likes of Rupp and Kara Goucher to work with.

What Olympic champs had Lydiard worked with until he was suddenly the man?

If you only want Hall to go to an established world beating coach, then I guess you are suggesting he go over to Africa and train?

And this year Anna Pierce ran sub-par and Uceny jumped to the front..I see no real consistency with Mahon..I also see to real speed development among the true distance runners he has..no real track or xc seasons..