Ryun VS Scott (best US miler ever)

The thing I like about running is that the results are cut and dry. It's not about people's opinions. Scott has run faster than any American ever. Scott never backed down from a challange from anyone ever. Coe and Ovett may have beaten Scott frequently, but they made some pretty pussy moves ducking Scott and each other. They wouldn't compete if they weren't in perfect form and pretty much guaranteed to win. But like I said, I respect the numbers. And, while Scott may have been able to run faster than Coe or Ovett if he rested up and focused more toward a world record or Olympic performance, that speculation doesn't override the fact that he didn't actually do it.

RunnerDude wrote:

Malmo, hate to break it to you. There is no way that you could run 400 meters in Ryun old spikes. They would eat you up, bloodied and blistered. No way that you can tell me that the shoes are equal. Much easier to run in today's shoes!!

Preach it at Dyestat kid.

Scott and Spivey, tale of the tape (impressive)

1977 3:37.3 Steve Scott Cal-Irvine

1978 3:38.8 Steve Scott Cal-Irvine

1979 3:36.40 Steve Scott Sub-4 TC

1982 3:34.92 Steve Scott Sub-4 TC

1983 3:36.62 Steve Scott Sub-4 TC

1984 3:40.54 Jim Spivey Ath West

1985 3:39.54 Jim Spivey Ath West

1986 3:42.41 Steve Scott Tiger TC

1987 3:43.66 Jim Spivey Ath West

1992 3:36.24 Jim Spivey Asics TC

indoor

1979 4:01.4 Steve Scott ITC

1981 3:57.3 Steve Scott Sub 4

1982 3:57.04 Jim Spivey Indiana

1984 4:00.06 Steve Scott Sub 4

1990 3:57.35 tie, Steve Scott Tiger & Marcus O'Sullivan NBTC/IRL

indoor

1988 7:52.91 Jim Spivey Ath. West

1989 7:53.69 Steve Scott Tiger TC

World and US rankings

1976 x 7 Scott

1977 9 1 Scott

1978 7 1 Scott

1979 3 1 Scott

1980 4 1 Scott x 8 Spivey

1981 4 1 Scott x 5 Spivey

1982 2 1 Scott x 5 Spivey

1983 2 1 Scott x 4 Spivey

1984 8 1 Scott 9 2 Spivey

1985 7 2 Scott x 3 Spivey

1986 3 1 Scott 9 2 Spivey

1987 X 2 Scott 5 1 Spivey

1988 6 1 Scott 7 2 Spivey

1989 x 2 Scott x 7 Spivey

1990 x 8 Scott x 3 Spivey

1991 x 3 Scott x 1 Spivey

...............9 1 Spivey

...............5 1 Spivey

...............x 4 Spivey

I love it, very savage & always true!

malmo wrote:

old fan wrote:

Scott's log was posted on this forum, Why don't the young elites on this forum last follow what Scott in the early 80's.

They already know it all. What would some has been loser like Steve Scott have to offer? He only got there because of natural talent. Most runners don't have the genetics to wake up before noon anymore. With all the pressure they have today: Lattes, Playstation and Heart-Rate Monitors. Like Scott didn't have that hanging over his head every day? I'd like to see how much time Scott would have if HE had to shave his legs every day? Twenty-four hours? Yeah, right, buddy!

Besides, they've gotten comfortable wearing panties.

In reply to no one in particular:

Scott accomplished more in the sport (because the money was there).

Ryun would have won in some idealized competition.

That is why I hate these "XXX vs. YYY" comparisons. Unless the runners ran the same events in the same era ... what is the point? How do you judge Bekele vs. Yifter? Mamede vs. Clarke? Answer: you don't. unless you want to offer up an opinion on who would win a big race at their peak ... it is a pointless exercise better left to Track and Field News.

People make these comparisons all the time in other sports. Sport fans compare ballplayers from other eras all the time.

Below is the article on Steve Scott's hall of fame indoctrination.

"Krummenacker is going to brake my record". Hasn't quite panned out that way has it. However, Krummenacker will get his sub 3:50 mile someday.

http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-0-0-4132,00.html

mile fan wrote:

I believe both Scott and Ryun were the only two US milers ever to appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated..

No. Marty Liquori (with Ryun) made the cover in 1971 when they had their famous Dream Mile race which Liquori won.

Who did better at the Olympics? Ryun

Who was a world record holder? Ryun

Steve Scott was someone in the picture in his era.

Ryun was the picture in his era.

This really isn't even a close battle.

I'va admired Steve Scott's career. I like the way he trained. If I could choose to sit next either Scott or Ryun on a long plane flight, I'd pick Scott in heartbeat. If they raced at their peaks and I had to bet the house on who would win, I'd pick Ryun. He'd have destroyed Scott. He destroyed everyone. Someone early in this thread mentioned that Ryun never had to face the level of competition Scott did. Ryun had no competition in his prime. He was simply beyond anyone.

None of this is to trash Steve Scott, a truly fine miler. But Ryun in 1966 and 67 was indescribable.

Mr. Nuisance wrote:

It is amazing that Ryun who ran his 3:51 before the first moon landing is faster than any American miler today. It is truly pathetic that no American has run a 3:50 mile in the last five years.

It is also truly pathetic that the U.S. can't even fly a man or woman into low earth orbit 35 years after Apollo 11. Interesting that our milers and our space program both reached their peaks in the 1960s.

Mass hysteria is engulfing US mile running. Nobody believes they can run fast anymore. T&F news illustrated this lack of confidence in their last issue.

It doesn't matter what Ryun did, because when push comes to shove Steve Scott ran faster. Thus, because he ran faster he wins. Game over, delete this thread now.

so, by your logic, that means that Geb is better than Zatopek? Time for time, Geb is faster. Does that mean that Bekele is better than Nurmi? If this is true, why is Pre still even looked at, when he ran 13:15; a time that many americans can run.

Even though this has been said numerous times, i will reiterate - Ryun ran a WR in the mid 60's - it took what, ten years to take off four seconds? with the jumps in biomedical, kinesiological, and exercise physiological knowledge, that seems a little off. Both were amazing athletes, don't get me wrong, i just believe that Ryun was better, RELATIVE TO HIS COMPETITION. Scot has faster times, but Geb has a faster time than Viren, who is still considered a phenominal athlete.

The subject of the thread is best US miler ever, not fastest. A fastest US miler thread wouldn't be a thread; it would be a list.

Ryun had more natural talent. He was running in an earlier era, and didn't have the marks to shoot for that Scott did. Ryun generally ran on dirt, and wasn't exactly trained in the best fashion. When he set his second mile record in '67, he said he felt as if he hadn't even run a race. Ryun and his coach felt he had the raw materials to run 3:46, back then, on dirt. A lot of people agree. Sure, Scott ran faster. But he was never the top miler, the WR holder. Ryun held that distinction for awhile.

Here's an interesting take on Ryun, written just after Webb had taken down his hs record:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/longrun/webb.html

By the way, Malmo's remarks on shoes are amusing. The shoes of the 60's and even the 70's are quite lousy compared to those of today. Take it from someone who raced back then, and still races now in Master's comp. Today's shoes are fabulous. So are today's tracks.

I don?t know if it?s been mentioned on this thread so far, but Ryan was unfairly deprived of the opportunity to add to his medal total by events outside his control at the 72 Olympics. First of all, some idiot, imagining the mile time submitted must be wrong and could only be a 1500mt time, subsequently seeded Ryan in the wrong heat. Then Ryan, running confidently at the rear of the field, was tripped up by some unknown clumsy runner from the Indian sub-continent who looked as if he?d never run on a track in his life - he certainly had never run in that sort of company. We, who were watching were quite confident that Ryan would be reinstated the following day. He never was and to this day, I?m convinced he was let down badly by his own officials who didn?t fiercely push forward the obvious justifications for his reinstatement. What a final we were deprived of: Vasala won from Keino and the way the race was run, it was set up for Ryan?s blistering finish. Incidentally, the 72 Olympics were the Games where Spitz won his four individual and three relay gold medals. But virtually forgotten these days was a 15year old Australian girl called Shane Gold. She won three gold medals, setting world records in all three. She won a silver in her fourth event and it took a world record to beat her and she also won a bronze in the 100. Not bad for a 15 year old, but the really amazing fact about that young phenomenon was that at one period, I think it was early 72, she held every women?s freestyle world record from 100 to 1500mts! That will never happen again. She retired from competitive swimming shortly after the Games - at 15!

angry observer...you asked why is Pre still looked at...that is an easy one. He ran fast and was brash. He partied hard and ran hard. Frank Shorter was way better than Pre but does he have any movies about him being made? No! Pre's story is what Hollywood loves, a brash, young athlete, who runs hard and parties hard. I always find it amusing that Pre is such an American running hero when he basically died a drunk driver.

Ryun accomplished a lot, no doubt, but Scott put up awesome times, he was consistent and faced the best in the world head to head all the time and came out ahead of most of them at one point or another. Yes, Ryun had a world record, and that is why he is one of the best milers ever, but Scott has held the American record for two decades and has run faster than Ryun numerous times. To me that just seems more impressive. This is all subjective, and that is why this thread is interesting.

Steve Scott and Jim Ryun's heir may have arrived. We had to wait a quarter century.

Alan Webb 3:33.70

Hopefully runners like Webb will put an end to the sit and kick travesties US mile fans have had to endure.

In there day both were great. However if Ryan ran with todays support he would be the best ever. Toughest miler ever.