Question for Malmo regarding "too few tempo runs"

A couple times, I've seen some younger athletes put in some really great, appropriately difficult training, then show up to race and absolutely fold. Oftentimes the younger athletes would go "I don't know, I just thought I would feel better in the race today- I trained so hard, and I didn't feel any better than usual!"

I know that I definitely did that a couple times my junior year of high school. In fact, I think I told my coach that once. He explained it to me perfectly- "You moron! A 4:20 all out mile is going to feel just as hard as an all out 4:40 mile was last year! It's still all out! You're just faster now!"

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think frozen north is a masters woman... not sure if she trains with a training group (at least, not a hs or college style one)?

I heard that advice about not keeping up with the leaders in practice, etc. over and over, but by doing it, and then taking it easier the next day on the easy run, I kept consistently improving and went on to beat a lot of those guys in races eventually. Push your workouts frequently and recover properly. That's just good sense.

From today's home page link to the Wesley Korir interview at

http://www.letsrun.com/2010/korir0225.php

:

Korir maintains a busy schedule at home in Louisville. “I work for the university as a maintenance guy. I fix stuff. I fix everything. I can fix electric wiring; right now, we are changing the light fixtures, we are installing new fans, so that’s what I do.

“I work full-time and I train full-time. It’s a marathon by itself, but it makes me become a strong person. I want to prove to myself that I can do it. After I come back from work, I know I’ve done 40 hours, eight hours a day and then I go out and run. It’s good because my boss is really flexible with me; he lets me work on the weekends, and work until 3 o’clock, and at 3 I go running. So I still have time to run and I still have time to work.

“People think that I don’t have time off, but I do. I plan my time very well. I wake up at 6 o’clock in the morning, go out for a run, come back, go to work; from work, come back, go running and then I have the rest of the night to enjoy. That’s how my life is.”

Yep. No reason to make this sport more complicated than it needs to be.

I remember years ago Carlos Lopes was being interviewed and was asked about his training. When he described it, the interviewer asked something like, "That's it?" Lopes' response was, "This sport is not nearly as complicated as some people want to make it."

Unfortunately, it took me a lot longer to understand what he meant than it should have.

Ah...but what are we talking about.

If you have an athlete build their base from age 14 to age 18 do you harm them by NOT doing any interval training at all?

They might not run faster because you must do some interval training to peak, but by withholding the interval training you are allowing the athlete to reach his highest peak possible. Everyone knows that you need to run 10 x 400 and 5 x mile type stuff to peak. But does that set back the athlete if you do it before they are ready?

Coaches cannot stop their athletes from racing, and thinking that the key is more and more hard intervals which they mistakenly call "speed work."

True speed work is less than 80 meters, or doing power exercises such as bounding, running up a hill, plyometrics and etc. In order to improve speed you must work at it all year long.

There are very few high school coaches that follow this pattern, but there have been some that have been successful with it in cross country.

Perhaps you might lose a few in track & field if you didn't do some interval training but it does not have to be 10 x 400 in 65! I agree with you there that they should be running by feel.

But the main problem is that Americans run too many races. Joe Newton of York (Elmhurst, IL) has been saying that for decades. Some high school kids run races all year long!!! It's nuts.

Classic thread bump.

If anything just for the long overdue clarification of 'FPF' usage. (Fetal position frequency).

Someone recently posted this Steve Jones podcast in a recent Steve Jones thread. Thought I would post it here, since he shares a very similar philosophy as Malmo on tempo running. Go to 1:06:09:

https://player.fm/series/running-rogue/episode-52-how-to-be-a-running-badass-with-steve-jones

Two responses, one post.

Banner wrote:

Classic thread bump.

If anything just for the long overdue clarification of 'FPF' usage. (Fetal position frequency).

After races, especially cross country, I was usually so sick that I had to curl up in bed in fetal position and nap 2-3 hours to recover.

Interval workouts, every other week or so. Long runs (20+ miles) usually every time.

malmo was right wrote:

Someone recently posted this Steve Jones podcast in a recent Steve Jones thread. Thought I would post it here, since he shares a very similar philosophy as Malmo on tempo running. Go to 1:06:09:

Steve Jones story told to me as was told to Bob Hodge by Paul Cummings. Cummings had stayed at Jonesy's house in Wales. Remember, To get the full gist of the story, you have to remember that Paul Cummings was a runner who ran on his twinkle-toes. He was also the AR holder of both the indoor 1500m and the HM. So they go out the door and run down the road perhaps a half mile at what must have been 5:00 pace, before Jones stops, turns to a pasture, then they both climb over a fence, like nothing, Jones tears across the field again at 5:00 pace!

Cummings went home devastated.

Thank you Malmo, that's a awesome story.

I stumbled upon this post in this thread while reviewing some of my thoughts on tempo runs. The run with Quax and Hermens was July 10th. I ran 12.5 miles with them. I believe they were out on a 20 miler. They, of course, were training for 10,000m. I was training for 1500m/steeplechase.

1978
7/9 - 7/15 74 miles
7/9 - AM 3 easy PM Nijmegen,NED 4 easy, 1500 (3:45.0), 3 easy
7/10 - PM 12.5 easy
7/11 - AM 3 easy, 2x400 (62.8, 53.1), 4x200 (26.8, 27.5, 27.7, 25.9), 2 easy PM 2 easy, strides, 2 easy
7/12 - AM 2 easy, strides, 2 easy PM 2 easy, strides, 2 easy
7/13 - AM 2 easy PMLausaunne, SWI 3 easy, 3000 SC 8:40.9, 2 easy
7/14 - PM 6 moderate
7/15 - AM 5 easy PM 3 easy, 2x800 (2:09, 2:08), 2x600 (1:33, 1:34), 2x400 (59,59), 2x200 (26,28), 2 easy jog