zzzz wrote:
Can people here read? Everyone voting for Ritz, on this last page at least, is arguing that Ritz is more accomplished or has won when it counted more. Yes - but the question is who is more talented. I take talent to mean ultimate potential, whether achieved later OR NOT. That's why people are mentioning Obea Moore, who really has no accomplishments on the world scene to speak of.
As I said before, I think Fernandez easily has more talent than Ritz. 4:00 and 8:34 2.5 hours apart as a 17 year old high school senior shows much more ultimate potential than 13:44 or Ritz's 3rd at World Cross juniors (Bekele was ahead of him, not sure how to assess rest of field). How many 13:44 5,000 runners can do that double?
You have shown to be one of the very few here who understands the definition of talent, so good show there; spot on examples my brother. I'll admit to not having followed Fernandez's career too closely, so I won't say whether he's more talented than Ritz or not (it IS a tall order to be declared more talented than Dathan Ritzenhein), but the one thing YOU need to keep in mind is that while you are 100% correct about your definition of talent, you slipped back into accomplishments (the 4:00 and 8:34) to help define the talent...now, you do need to do that a little bit, so I'm not ripping on you here brother, but even a day like he had doesn't necessarily mean he's any more talented than Ritz (doesn't mean he isn't either). When it comes to ANY accomplishment, in addition to the necessary talent, it all goes to the training, to the focus for that one thing, good weather on the day, etc. Also, it is easier to be the hunter than the hunted. Fernandez broke Jeff Nelson's 2-mile record by ~2 seconds. Does that mean he is more talented than Jeff Nelson? Some may argue yes. I'd say not necessarily so.
When you properly define talent, you need to take it to the next level...you determine that the level of talent will enable the ability (accomplishments) to reach a certain level, so if you determine that GF is more talented than Ritz, how do you think that will manifest itself; better career times than Ritz perhaps? I was in the same boat once upon a time. I long said that Ritz had more talent than Bob Kennedy and that that talent would enable him to run a faster 5,000 meters than Kennedy ever did. I was correct of course.