Is anybody else not seeing the whole forum?
Is anybody else not seeing the whole forum?
i can only access the threads that are featured on the home page but cannot see the index of threads it just reads no messages.
i can only access the threads that are featured on the home page but cannot see the index of threads it just reads no messages.
poster wrote:
Is anybody else not seeing the whole forum?
Same for me. Hmm, that's a shame, I was planning on wasting my entire morning on these boards. Now I'll have to do something productive...
One thing WeJo doesn't address is that she was not a 2:00 runner prior to this year. The jump from 2:02 to 1:57 is much larger than the jump from 2:00 to 1:57.
I stand by my point - her drop was similar to a 28 year old male going from 1:48.02 to 1:43.85 in one year. I'm not saying she is "for sure" on drugs, just that if she were not a white, likabel american, she probably would not be defended nearly as hard. In fact, many more would probably defend her.
Only one page on Semenya's 1:56. So why go after Vessey and not address this Semenya's drop in time while front running in windy conditions?
In case there's a Mod lurking, can we expect the rest of the board up at some stage?
samehere wrote:
i can only access the threads that are featured on the home page but cannot see the index of threads it just reads no messages.
'The jump from 2:02 to 1:57 is much larger than the jump from 2:00 to 1:57.'
The actual improvement is 2:02.01 to 1:57.84
Just over 4 seconds. Now that is quite a lot at that level, the race conditions need to be taken into account.
In the 1:57.84 race 4 girls out of 10 ran PR's, 4 SB's and 1 other still went sub 2. The conditions, pacing, track, wind were obviously favourable. That can be worth 1 to 2 seconds
A 2 to 3 second improvement then doesn't sound so startling
By the way your 1:48.02 should be extrapolated to 1:44.33
122.01 4.17 0.034177526* = 1:57.84
108.02 x *
3.691856405
104.3281436
The only thing proving drug use is a positive drugs test, but you are right in that if she came from a different country the accusations would be flying. But why bother watching athletics hoping to see improvement then when it happens start moaning
Start campaigning instead to increase the 2 year slap on the wrist to something stronger - I'm going to start a thread on this.
boschenaar wrote:
The world has seen several sub 1:57 800m women that never ran 400 meters below :54.0. Maggie already has and I think she can go sub :53.0 someday soon. Maggie may have come from a 400m background but she is not a 400m runner. She is an 800m runner. Vessey is clean! But just for fun type in Vessey Drugs into Google.
I'm not saying Vessey is using drugs, BUT I don't know of any sub 1:57 runners who have not cracked 54 in the 400.
Please don't cite Jolanda Ceplak as she is just coming off an EPO ban. And please don't cite Christine Wachtel, as she ran on a 3:21.25 bronze medal team at the world championships (unless you think the other 3 runners averaged 47.7 per leg).
douglas burke, as well as just look... can you guys not read or something? The opening post CLEARLY says that her PR is 53.61 that she ran at a previous all comers meet... and if you've read this whole read, it also says she shut it down after 300 m or she could have gone much faster.
In the Examiner story the author writes, "before returning to compete in the World Championships later this month in Berlin, Vessey ran a 400 meter in a decent time of 54.31. I watched Maggie run to a 54.11 in San Mateo back in June, just prior to the unrolling of her fairy tale story that has captivated the American running community."
So exactly where and when did she run the 53.61? I looked for Los Gatos all comers results and I couldn't locate it.
Anyways, I was responding to a post that claimed sub 1:56 female runners with 400 times slower than 54. I seriously doubt that, and was pointing out that Ceplak and Wahctel should not be used for examples for stated reasons.
http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2009/LGAC1/400-1.jpgjust look wrote:
So exactly where and when did she run the 53.61? I looked for Los Gatos all comers results and I couldn't locate it.
She almost broke 2:02 at the Trials running her "Afraid Of The Pain" strategy of scurrying the last 200 to make up for her lack of early pace. If she had run under the same conditions/strategy as her 1:57, she would have broken 2:00.
asdfasdffasdfasd wrote:
One thing WeJo doesn't address is that she was not a 2:00 runner prior to this year. The jump from 2:02 to 1:57 is much larger than the jump from 2:00 to 1:57.
I stand by my point - her drop was similar to a 28 year old male going from 1:48.02 to 1:43.85 in one year. I'm not saying she is "for sure" on drugs, just that if she were not a white, likabel american, she probably would not be defended nearly as hard. In fact, many more would probably defend her.
Sweet! Thanks for that!
Thank you for the link.
The guy who ran 55.0 could have run 52.x, but decided he liked the view better from where he was.
Cats, cats, cats wrote:
http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2009/LGAC1/400-1.jpg
400 PR's are irrelevant. There are gals who have run 51's that barely broke 2:00. There are also many who never run an open 400.
Yeah, but if a woman runs 1:57.84, you expect to see either a low 52 (or better) or 4:02 (or better). What's peculiar is to look at a 400/800 runner with such a slow 400 relative to her 800 without a compensating capacity for the 1500.
This would be like a straight fastball pitcher with a top speed of 80-85 mph striking people out in the major leagues.
her mid-53 is perfectly compatible with a mid-1'57
it's if your getting as slow as 55 then it is starting to become impossible to run mid-1'57 off it, but mid-53 is perfectly fine
your low-52 is asking too much - jelimo's 400pb set last year is 52.78 & she's run 1'54-flat !!!
Mid 53 for a man is compatible with a mid 1:57. Not for a woman. Or, mid 53 is compatible with a mid 1:57 if the woman was a 1500 meter or 3000 meter runner dropping down to the 400.
If mid 53 were compatible with a mid 1:57, then a mid 43 would be compatible with a mid 1:37, or a mid 44 (think Juantorema or Everett) would be compatible with a mid 1:39.
And that's on a man's terms. Women do not convert 400 speed to 800 speed as efficiently as men do, as in the women's 400 meter record is just over 4 seconds slower than the men's but the women's 800 metere record is 12 seconds slower than the men's.
