aging and feeling good while running

This is good advice and works!

I agree as well...I coach high school girls track and we do all of that stuff as well....and I try to do it with them. They taught me how to take videos on my phone...I don't have an iPod...and I taught them how to kick some ass in the gym. My two favorite things with them are the train.....where one girl lays down, the next girl jumps over her and lays down, the next girl jumps over the two girls until they are all lying down like railroad tracks and the last girl has to get up and jump them all...all the way around the football field. And crazy relays...where they had to run to me and I made them do something...could be a plyo move, a strength move or I made them sing a song. Kids keep you young. I can still out pushup and out core work them though.

5 acres is all you need to make a nice 400 meter track

If you decide on a trail it would be worth your while to visit Amazon trail in Eugene Oregon.By far the best running surface I have ever run on...well...except for running barefoot on the infield grass at Hayward.

Here is what I did last week

warmup 1 mile climb

3 x 1.25 on muddy rolling trail hard

1 mile cool down plus a mile walk down the hill

5 days of walking about 5 miles a day plus 12 minutes of ez rowing each day.

Why 5 days?

Because it took 5 days till my legs regained that youthful spring.

I am not kidding.

On the 5th day of walking near the end of my walk I just all of a sudden felt like sprinting.So I ran a couple of blocks.

Next day ,today,was a perfect sunny day.I was lucky enough to be down in Eugene Oregon.Amazon loop(best running surface in the world) for a fast 1 mile warmup followed by 3 miles at just over 6 minute pace then a half mile jog to cool down probably 7 minute pace.

So 7 hours later my legs feel ok but I am sure they will be sore tomorrow and I will be back walking.

But I would much rather have 2 good hard springy days a week than 5 or 6 days of feeling like my legs were made out of wood.

But how about base?

Hey just a theory but once get lots of miles on your legs the base is pretty much allways stays there with minimal training.

... sounds a little trollish to me but you maybe trolling for good reasons, who knows... especially the song bit... sounds trollish... do the girls really like/do what you describe...sounds really trollish... but please take no offense...

Yes, they really do like it. You also have to realize that I am a female....does that change how you look at it? These are girls, they make up an official team song each season...THAT is the song I make them sing. Clearly you have never coached a girls team.....they are goofs.

FiftyOne wrote:

But how about base?

Hey just a theory but once get lots of miles on your legs the base is pretty much allways stays there with minimal training.

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Are you certain about that?

For starters I have been running for 44 yr. with a few interruptions since Gr. 11 track & x-c., even before that when I thought I had a future as a soccer player. I'm

I always notice I LOSE quite a bit of fitness whenever I'm forced to or decide to stop running.

On the other hand I was never a big mileage guy, 50 - 60 mpw, occasionally up to 90 or more when gunninng for a marathon.

Interesting for a discussion topic?

I have seen girls in other sports doing the railroad track thing he describes. Last year my XC team watched in disbelief as one of our other girl's teams did it and we all wondered why. It just looks like you're setting someone up to get hurt.

Never had anyone get hurt yet.....you have to work on the high stepping, and concentrate pretty hard not to kick a teammate. You should try it before you pass judgement.

I guess I'm inclined to agree.

My wife just told me about the PT at the gym she visits who has these "old guys"...office types, lay down and when he says "Go" they jump up and sprint to the other end of the gym and back. At first it sounded like a recipe for disaster, but the more I read all of your posts, and think about them, the more sense it makes to step out of our comfort zones, physically.

Play on Garth.

-Toivo

51,

Up until last summer I would have been in camp with your "Retained Base Theory". Seems like we took a trip(8 days) and as travel will do , I missed alot of training.

The result being, I went from an "easy" 4:07 run at Grandma's in June to a 5:33 PW at Grand Island in late July. Worked my butt off the rest of the summer and fall to recapture enough base to post a very workmanlike 3:20 at NYCM. I used to feel steady as a rock about my base, all of a sudden I resemble a human yoyo in that regard. I'm hoping it's not one of those surprises aging has in store for me ,and that I can shake out of the rollercoaster.

Maybe it is really just a sweet spot.

Once you accumulate some combination of miles and intensity you enter the sweet spot.

Eventually a combination of miles,injuries,and decrepitude wear you down.

The sweet spot turns into a black hole.

Also on a related theory:

You can train the body into holding conditioning longer.

As we all know,first hand,the body adapts to training.

We get fit.

If we stop training the body adapts to not training.

We return to our former physical state.

I believe that by using a variable training frequency and intensity you end up training the body to hold fitness longer!

And yes the corollary also applies.If you train the same way day after day week after week and year after year then suddenly reduce or eliminate running you lose fitness FAST.

B.F.Skinner applied to training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#Theory

Schedules of Reinforcement

Part of Skinner's analysis of behavior involved not only the power of a single instance of reinforcement, but the effects of particular schedules of reinforcement over time.

Skinner's types of schedules of reinforcement involved: continuous, interval (fixed or variable), and ratio (fixed or variable).

* Continuous reinforcement — constant delivery of reinforcement for an action; every time a specific action was performed the subject instantly and always received a reinforcement. This method is prone to extinction and is very hard to enforce.

* Interval (fixed/variable) reinforcement (Fixed) — reinforcement is set for certain times. (Variable) — times between reinforcement are not set, and often differ.

* Ratio (fixed or variable) reinforcement (Fixed) — deals with a set amount of work needed to be completed before there is reinforcement. (Variable) — amount of work needed for the reinforcement differs from the last.

Toivo,

I turn 32, in a few days. I've got a few years to go until I get to where your at but I have run close to 60,000 miles now in the past 16 years as well as competed at the elite level. One of the biggest changes that I have made to ensure pleasure in all of my running is learning to run with a specific technique called the Pose Method of running. After 2 years of practicing and training for running as a skill rather than a cardio based activity, I am now most happy with my running and it is more enjoyable than it has ever been. If you go to

www.posetech.com

you can read lots of specific info about this concept of running technique. I also post on the forum there regularly so if you have any specific questions you can feel free to ask them. Good luck with your running.

Jeremy

www.therunningman.ws

I just want to affirm my view that we 50+ guys benefit far more than perhaps was previously thought by running fast 1-3 times per week. This is not as relevant to the marathoners, but for everyone else there should be a 3k tempo run and some form of intervals every week-10 days.

I just raced on the track for the first time in 2 years, but I have been doing fast intervals throughout. The race went as well as could be expected, with the added bonus that I was the only one able to kick. It seemed clear to me that even acknowledging that some guys were faster, my speed work produced the ability to kick that even some of the younger and stronger guys had lost.

I suppose with all teammates "caring" about each other, there would be high bonding value in making sure not to hurt your buddy as a function of physical control and exertion.

Is it like acrobatic partner sports when to greater or lesser degrees you entrust your well being to your partner? Maybe less sophisticated but i suppose it is the same principle.

The fact that you are a woman witn girl-only athletes might indeed contribute to bonding value...

To each his own. As for me, I'm 50, not 32, and I can say that after 26 years of heel striking then 1.5 years of failed forefoot striking that most of my running has finally returned back to being a LOT more enjoyable and INJURY-FREE since I GAVE UP a failed experiment in training called Pose.

Especially the part regarding hip stress fracture pain, that has gone away COMPLETELY since reverting back to the devil-worshipping heel striker's biomechanics that served me so well for over a quarter century.

But hey, I might be shunned from the elite "Posers", but at least I am finally out of the woods after 1 hip stress fracture and early symptoms of a second one. I am reasonably sure if I just keep running non-Pose that I won't need a hip replacement in the future.

The one thing I retained from the failed experiment was focusing on faster cadence, no matter what the style of running. Also, some of the balance drills are universally recommended.

But then again, there are benefits to selling snake oil if you own some of the stock.

I had some vague premonition about the corollary regarding sameness. The way you've used Skinner to delineate and expand upon this is pure genius. Many thanks from a graying Badger.

Thanks for the porn links! This thread is interesting too.

Eccentric muscular damage

The famed running doctor Tim Noakes, in perhaps the seminal running text, The Lore of Running, indicates that top class runners may only have 20 years of optimal performance in them, before injury and degeneration takes its toll. He believes that this two decade window is applicable to any runner, regardless of the age at which they start running. Thus a 30 year old who begins regular running training will have until they are 50 to make the most of their genetic potential. John Shepherd

I am glad I have been injured at 23 and running again at 50.

Tullio wrote:

Eccentric muscular damage

The famed running doctor Tim Noakes, in perhaps the seminal running text, The Lore of Running, indicates that top class runners may only have 20 years of optimal performance in them, before injury and degeneration takes its toll. He believes that this two decade window is applicable to any runner, regardless of the age at which they start running. Thus a 30 year old who begins regular running training will have until they are 50 to make the most of their genetic potential. John Shepherd

I am glad I have been injured at 23 and running again at 50.

Browsing some past threads I see. It's funny because this has happened to me recently. I started running at age 33. I ran my fastest marathon out of 7 at age 50. Had Pr's in the mile and 5k in my late 40's. At 51 I had hernia/labral tears issues and had to take 11 months off. I've been back running since July. Only about 20 miles per week, still having some problems with the injury. Boy have things change though. I'll be 53 in a few weeks. I feel old as hell. My whole body feels beaten up. Maybe a miracle will happen and I'll be running decent in a year from now but I highly doubt it. It seems 20 years was just about the exact downturn for me. I do however have friends that are/were still running strong after 20 years but I'm not one of them.