Lagat is NOT an American

Proud to be an American wrote:

It is not being a bigot to suggest that Lagat is not "true" American.

Mild in form; but, yes, it is bigotry.

The same people ripping those of us who won't recognize Lagat as an American simply because he holds a certified document are probably the same people who criticize others for not goosestepping behind Bush in support of the war in Iraq.

People take the concepts of Americanism and patriotism too far.

Lagat is Kenyan. OUT!

USK wrote:

The same people ripping those of us who won't recognize Lagat as an American simply because he holds a certified document are probably the same people who criticize others for not goosestepping behind Bush in support of the war in Iraq.

People take the concepts of Americanism and patriotism too far.

Lagat is Kenyan. OUT!

Another "American" apparently unsure of where he/she came from and that has forgotten that America was founded on the principles of opportunity and freedom.

You're a bigot. OUT!

USK wrote:

The same people ripping those of us who won't recognize Lagat as an American simply because he holds a certified document are probably the same people who criticize others for not goosestepping behind Bush in support of the war in Iraq.

People take the concepts of Americanism and patriotism too far.

Lagat is Kenyan. OUT!

thanks for that, those f***ing idiots who say lagat is american are just victims of the american educational system.

how the hell lagat can be american, whats the f*** is wrong with you people ? WEBB is a True American, Jeremy Wariner is a True American, Brad walker is a True American,

BERNARD LAGAT is a great runner, but he is KENYAN, if you really cant understand that then you are real idiots.

marko9 wrote:

USK wrote:

The same people ripping those of us who won't recognize Lagat as an American simply because he holds a certified document are probably the same people who criticize others for not goosestepping behind Bush in support of the war in Iraq.

People take the concepts of Americanism and patriotism too far.

Lagat is Kenyan. OUT!

thanks for that, those f***ing idiots who say lagat is american are just victims of the american educational system.

how the hell lagat can be american, whats the f*** is wrong with you people ? WEBB is a True American, Jeremy Wariner is a True American, Brad walker is a True American,

BERNARD LAGAT is a great runner, but he is KENYAN, if you really cant understand that then you are real idiots.

Guess I'm an idiot. By the way, GREAT grammar! Learn some before you call others "victims of the american educational system!!!"

phishy wrote:

You're a bigot. OUT!

And you're a zealotous moron. So there!

The "you forgot where you came from card" is really getting tired. I was born in the United States, and so were my parents and grandparents. I don't really give a damn that ancestors I never knew came to America from Scotland and Ireland to seek a better life. I live in the here and now.

Get off your high horse and go drag some more immigrants across the border. They can all stay at your place while they're studying to become "true" Americans.

orbitboy wrote:

If he's a US citizen, he's just as American as anyone else.

No, he's just as much a U.S. citizen as anyone else. Well, not just anyone else; anyone else who happens to be a U.S. citizen. It's not like you receive citizenship, and voila, you're "just as American" as little Billy down the street. And yes, that Billy could very well be Billy Konchellah, if he were born and raised here. Like Lagat, however, he wasn't.

USK wrote:

phishy wrote:

You're a bigot. OUT!

And you're a zealotous moron. So there!

The "you forgot where you came from card" is really getting tired. I was born in the United States, and so were my parents and grandparents. I don't really give a damn that ancestors I never knew came to America from Scotland and Ireland to seek a better life. I live in the here and now.

Get off your high horse and go drag some more immigrants across the border. They can all stay at your place while they're studying to become "true" Americans.

Hey, dumbass, we're not talking about illegal immigrants. We're talking about a people, like Lagat, who come to the United States for better opportunity and that become LEGAL U.S. citizens LIKE YOU AND I.

Here's to "living in the here and now!" Would you like to join me?

And those immigrants who are not even yet citizens but serve right now in Iraq and Afghanistan? Not "real Americans"?

Tommy2Nuts wrote:

Let the jealousy and envy and thinly veiled racism begin! I love it.

2 golds for America and Americas running "fans" cant deal with the fact that a black naturalized CITIZEN wins them.

Ive been reading the threads and theres more concern for Mottrams bad run than for Lagats great wins. Plural.

How sad is that?

So, for many running fans, legal immigration is just as unfair as illegal immigration. Shows what a shallow group of individuals you all are.

And that you have NO CLUE how America runs. Or even stands for.

phishy wrote:

...LEGAL U.S. citizens LIKE YOU AND I.

Here's to "living in the here and now!" Would you like to join me?

Once again, I am not questioning Lagat's citizenship. I have already stated that Lagat is a LEGAL U.S. CITIZEN, but that doesn't make him a true American. He is a Kenyan.

Look, I'm totally on board with the fact that Lagat is a class act and a great runnner and (most likely) a fine person. But neither those things nor his documented citizenship make him a true American. Period.

Get some perspective, will ya?

Hey, USK. I haven't had the time to read all 6 pages on this topic, but have you actually defined what you believe that criteria are to be considered a "true American"? If not, what are they?

SVC wrote:

Hey, USK. I haven't had the time to read all 6 pages on this topic, but have you actually defined what you believe that criteria are to be considered a "true American"? If not, what are they?

No solid definition has been offered, but I did allude to the idea that an "true" American ought to have been born and raised and still claiming permanent residence in the United States.

USK wrote:

phishy wrote:

...LEGAL U.S. citizens LIKE YOU AND I.

Here's to "living in the here and now!" Would you like to join me?

Once again, I am not questioning Lagat's citizenship. I have already stated that Lagat is a LEGAL U.S. CITIZEN, but that doesn't make him a true American. He is a Kenyan.

Look, I'm totally on board with the fact that Lagat is a class act and a great runnner and (most likely) a fine person. But neither those things nor his documented citizenship make him a true American. Period.

Get some perspective, will ya?

According to the LAW, the only thing that matters is that Lagat is a legal US citizen. There's no such thing as a "true American," legally speaking. I can't see why this distinction would matter to anyone who's not at racist. You can bellow and whine all you want about who's a "real American" and who's not, but it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. It's only your own narrow-minded opinion. Thankfully, in this country, the rule of law supercedes your irrational opinion.

orbitboy wrote:

According to the LAW, the only thing that matters is that Lagat is a legal US citizen. There's no such thing as a "true American," legally speaking. I can't see why this distinction would matter to anyone who's not at racist. You can bellow and whine all you want about who's a "real American" and who's not, but it doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. It's only your own narrow-minded opinion. Thankfully, in this country, the rule of law supercedes your irrational opinion.

Well, aren't you the enlightened one. I wish I was as good as you.

You are obviously as bone-headed as you acuse me of being. Otherwise, you wouldn't throw the "racist" comment at me. When have I mentioned race?! I don't give a damn what color Lagat's skin is! I don't even give a damn that he's Kenyan! I just know that - no matter what some convoluted law says - Lagat is a Kenyan and not an American.

I'm sure you'll appreciciate that I'm done trying to reason with all you bleeding hearts.

Xenophobia has been around since the birth of the United States. In that respect, you're like many Americans who've come before you.

You'd like the term "American" to have a meaning that's easy to grab hold of, and you'd like that meaning to mirror what you see in yourself and people whom you believe to be like you.

Except that there is no singular representation of an "American." Do you honestly believe that people in Dixie perceive themselves in exactly the same way as those in Manhattan ... or Harlem ... or Chicago ... or Missoula ... or Newport ... or Orem ... or San Francisco ... or South Central. Are Catholic Americans interchangeable with Hindu Americans? Are hippies the spitting image of John Birch Society members? Are Democrats Republicans? Is black white? There is no "American culture" that is shared across the board: unless it's an unfathomable affinity for bad TV.

Or is it just being born on American soil that makes you an American? Is culture irrelevant? Can you simply grow up within the U.S.'s geographical boundaries and then, and only then, be a true American? No matter what you believe. No matter what you achieve. Is being a "true" American no different - no more valuable or precious - that being a "true" Estonian or Figian or Gabonese? Is it all about the dirt on our feet?

Or maybe there's a time limit for becoming a "true" American? Let's say it's 30 years from now, and Lagat's still living here - is he an American yet? Does the same time limit hold true for people born in America?

Or maybe it's something else ...

Most Americans can't name their own Congressman; can't say how many Congressmen there even are; can't list the Bill of Rights; mix up the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution (which most have either never read or read so long ago that they don't have a clue what's in it). So being American must not be political.

And most Americans don't know the difference between Madison vs. Marbury and Tyson vs. Holyfield (well, okay, they know a lot more about the latter), so it can't be history or the law that makes one American.

We share our primary language with the British Commonwealth, and many homegrown Americans speak languages other than English in the home. So it can't be language either.

You know, I'm stumped.

Is it tying mini-American flags to car antennas? Is that it?

Pray tell, Mr. True American, what is it that makes all us "real" Americans, well, "real Americans"?

Because I thought it WAS our American citizenship. And our embrace of the principles laid out by our Founders. And our understanding that the concept of a "melting pot" makes us a stronger nation than those ruled by the irrational and exclusive principle of nationalism.

All men are created equal, according to one of our most acclaimed Founders - and it is the offshoot of that belief (the liberty and the pursuit of happiness) that binds us together as "real" Americans. And it is our willingness to extend that gift, that unbelievable achievement in Western civilization, as often and as generously as we reasonably can that keeps us strong. Because America has never suffered due to its policy of embracing those from other countries who share our belief in equality and liberty. Rather, we have prospered. Prospered more wildly than any country in history.

As for Bernard Lagat: when the best the world has to offer parlay their gifts into American citizenship, it illustrates that American citizenship - and the American dream it represents, and has represented since our nation's birth - is still strong and alive.

And I don't know about you, but that makes me proud to be an American.

Yes, you're done "reasoning" with us because you have nothing. You have no rational, logical reasoning to back up your own narrow-minded opinion. In fact, you're so narrow-minded that you think I called you a racist. I didn't. I just stated that I don't see how your opinion could be held by anyone who's not a racist. I gave you a chance to explain why your opinion is not racist, and you couldn't do it. Only that you don't "care" if Lagat is black or not. Nice try. "Convoluted law"... Jesus H. Christ that's pathetic.

If someone's NOT a racist, why would this "true American" distinction matter? This issue only comes up when it's a non-white guy acheiving something noteworthy.

I certainly imagine that you don't find it troubling that there are plenty of non-US citizens fighting in Iraq in US uniforms right now. Why don't you write the President or your congressman and senator to bring those guys who aren't "true Americans" back so that it's only the "true Americans" fighting for us in US uniforms over there. Yeah, that would do it. That would make this country SUCH a better place.

USK wrote:

SVC wrote:

Hey, USK. I haven't had the time to read all 6 pages on this topic, but have you actually defined what you believe that criteria are to be considered a "true American"? If not, what are they?

No solid definition has been offered, but I did allude to the idea that an "true" American ought to have been born and raised and still claiming permanent residence in the United States.

I allude to the idea that a "true" American ought to have been a direct descendent of those who were in America when the country was founded. Everyone else, in my opinion (which therefore should be everyone else's), is not a "true" American, just a "legal" American, but still just an immigrant or of immigrant descendent.

All those "immigrants" serving in the US Armed Forces, dying for America, still not "true" Americans.

Right?

I allude to the idea that a "true" American ought to have been a direct descendent of those who were in America when the country was founded. Everyone else, in my opinion (which therefore should be everyone else's), is not a "true" American, just a "legal" American, but still just an immigrant or of immigrant descendent.

All those "immigrants" serving in the US Armed Forces, dying for America, still not "true" Americans.

Right?

Uh, WRONG, genius, but thanks for trying. Please drive thru.

Wow. You've succeeded admirably in bringing new meaning to the phrase "posting without a clue." Look, simply put, There Are No True Americans.

America is an artificial construct. If you're lucky, it's a club you can join whenever it's most convenient and lucky for you to do so. The Indians that were here when the Europeans first arrived were not tele-ported from Mars. They walked here from another continent. They have no more "right" to "America" than anyone else.

Unfortunately 95% of them got dicked over by microbiology (contagious diseases). It's a indifferent universe, now. Get used to it.

Nationality is a silly, childish myth. Unless you can prove otherwise, it just does not mean anything....