Keino beat Ryun at the Mexico Olympics in the 1500m. Gamudi beat Keino at 5000m at the same games. Gamudi was beaten by two no name guys in the 10000m. Who was in the best shape? You'd have to say the winner of the 10000m, Temu. He beat Gamudi, who in turn defeated Keino, who in turn beat Ryun.
The greatest race ever run was a 29:27 by Temu. He destroyed the guy who destroyed Keino at the same games.
the truth be told wrote:
ISBN wrote:Nope! Nairobi is 5899 feet above sea level. Fool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nairobihttp://www.nairobi.climatemps.com/map.phpYou are pathetic to keep quoting Mo's 3:28 as one of your 'successes'.
So what! You've also made many more ridiculous and completely wrong predictions that totally undermine 1 lucky break. Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
Your calculator doesn't work. For every one athlete you find whose pb's fit 'loosely' on your line of fit, there are hundreds more who don't.
exactly. He always conveniently forgets that he predicted Mo running 27:15-20 at Pre in 2011. Half a minute out, not even close.
You conveniently forget that his predictions are only as good as the information we have about the current fitness of an athlete. His prediction was reasonable based on that. Mo made a huge breakthrough in that race.
reader of the forums wrote:
the truth be told wrote:exactly. He always conveniently forgets that he predicted Mo running 27:15-20 at Pre in 2011. Half a minute out, not even close.
You conveniently forget that his predictions are only as good as the information we have about the current fitness of an athlete. His prediction was reasonable based on that. Mo made a huge breakthrough in that race.
He doesnt even believe in his own calculator--in the infamous 328 ( which again if you make enough predictions you are bound to get one right eventually) I offered to bet him straight up. He declines. He could have made a mint and I am goid for it. I have offered him wagers on several other occasions from single races to seasons bests to career bests on various athletes. He always declines because he does not have any confidence in his own predictions.
He also frequently complains to moderators and has posts removed when they challenge him or point out his flawed predictions.
newname wrote:
TrackCoach,
Lydiard did not coach Ron Clarke, Lasse Viren, or John Walker.
Only Walker was from NZ. Just thought you should know this.
I do know that Walker, Dixon, etc., are NZ and the other athletes are not, but they are associated with Lydiard's coaching.
If someone breaks a world record at altitude, runs their lifetime best, and sets a national record still stands at the Mexico Olympics we can safely say that altitude does not hinder 800m performances.
Winner of 800m at Mexico city did this.
Clarke was not a Lydiardite at all.
Realmsb wrote:
If someone breaks a world record at altitude, runs their lifetime best, and sets a national record still stands at the Mexico Olympics we can safely say that altitude does not hinder 800m performances.
Winner of 800m at Mexico city did this.
Certain runners (Keino, Doubell) have a physiological talent for running at altitude. It has nothing to do with altitude adaption.
Both Keino & Doubell ran far better (certainly faster) at altitude than at sea-level. Case in point - Keino ran a solo 3:37 at South Lake Tahoe in 1969.
Doubell broke WR indoor 1,000 yards at mile high Albuquerque also in 1969.
Keino would laugh at that stupid British git who says Kip could run 3:27.
Again, Keino never ran in the 3:35's ANYWHERE/ANYTIME.
messi wrote:Certain runners (Keino, Doubell) have a physiological talent for running at altitude. It has nothing to do with altitude adaption
nonsense
they were just great runners in career best shape in mexico
Both Keino & Doubell ran far better (certainly faster) at altitude than at sea-level
doubell's run described as run on "fast wooden 10 laps/mile track"
he had also run within 1.5s off that in los angeles prior, in a race where he said he took it easy, wasn't concerned about the time, just winning
los angeles at sea-level ???
Case in point - Keino ran a solo 3:37 at South Lake Tahoe in 1969
more lack of research
a run on synthetic track
keino ran a magnificent 3'36 in a tactical race in cold, windy, miserable edinburgh, destroying young pretender, quax
edinburgh at altitude ???
keino also split 3'36.7 in a mile race on dirt in london
london at altitude ???
keino also chased Ryun to 3'37.2 in his wr in 95F heat & off a jog to 300m in
los angeles at sea-level ???
keino ran his 2nd, 3rd & 4th fastest 1500s at sea- level
Doubell broke WR indoor 1,000 yards at mile high Albuquerque also in 1969
see above :
a fast track for the day & he ran within 1.5s off that in an easy run when not chasing the clock at sea-level
Keino would laugh at that stupid British git who says Kip could run 3:27
utter nonsense
keino told his work boss when he got back to kenya that he wouda utterly smashed the 1500wr record if that track was at sea-level
you haven't a clue about keino
he was no shrinking violet like most africans but very proud of his achievements & never one to claim false modesty about his runs
Again, Keino never ran in the 3:35's ANYWHERE/ANYTIME
utterly clueless
how many times do you have to be told :
he never ran on a synthetic track until mexico & synthetic tracks are 1.5% quicker than dirt according to epstein
he was also in shape of his life in mexico, by far
Ron Clarke had an excellent diet. Just google it. I'd say his almost perfect diet was one of the reasons for his success.
Living in the Past wrote:
Here's an email response from Bedford to the following question: People say there is a similarity between yourself and Clarke, that neither earned the rewards his talents merited. Do you agree?
Ans: "He broke 17 world records, I broke one. I ended up running faster than him over 10,000 metres, but Ron had an awful amount of bad luck. The year he was winning everything the Olympics were at altitude in Mexico. If they had been anywhere else he would have won the 5,000m and 10,000m easily."
Mohamed Gammoudi won the 5,000 and is from Tunisia. He trained at altitude and beat the Kenyans and Ethiopians. Did Clarke not train at altitude before Mexico City? Does anyone besides Bedford think that Clarke would have beaten Gammoudi if the Olympics had been at sea level in 1968? I doubt it.
I'm thinking that Gammoudi would have won the 5,000 and the 10,000 at sea level in 1968. In the 10,000, he was third behind Naftali Temu of Kenya and Mamo Wolde of Ethiopia. He missed the gold by seven seconds.
http://62.232.35.140/athletics-heroes/stats_athletics/olympics/1968_m.asp
Nice interview with the man himself, for comments on Mexico City go to 29:00 mark forward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT2ANRbiiH8ventolin^3 wrote:
keino ran a magnificent 3'36 in a tactical race in cold, windy, miserable edinburgh, destroying young pretender, quax
edinburgh at altitude ???
keino also split 3'36.7 in a mile race on dirt in london
keino ran his 2nd, 3rd & 4th fastest 1500s at sea- level
More rubbish.
Anyone else claim a 3:36 performance on synthetic from any other runner was 'magnificent', and you'd laugh at them. Cold or not in Edinburgh, running a 3:36.6 with a 44.3 last 300 is piss poor. That is no indication of a 3:26 runner as you so ludicrously claim.
Neither is a 3:36.7 1500 split in a 3:53.8 Mile in London in 67 anything to shout about. Nor is it some indication that Keino ran some great races at sea level. A last 109 yds of 17.1 is pathetic. That's 15.9 for 100m or 63.6 pace for 440yds. He was practically dying on his feet. Cordner Nelson wrote in "The Milers" that, "his legs almost buckled under him as he finished in 3:53.8"
Using IAAF points for performances and looking at only his 1500 and Mile performances, Keino ran his 1st, 2nd and 4th best times at Altitude: -
3:34.9 in Mexico City,
3:53.1 Mile in Kisumu in 67, (3700ft) ~ 56.2, 59.9, 58.1, 58.9
3:36.8 1500 in Nairobi in 71, (5900ft)
Nelson goes on to state several things about Keino, his 1968 season, his ability to run faster at altitude than sea level and his run in Mexico City: -
"On June 1 (1968) in the high altitude of Nyeri, he (Keino) ran 6miles in 28:39, enough to frighten any sea level runner in the world. A week later in Nairobi (5900ft altitude), he ran a mile in 4:01.9. He showed more aptitude at the altitude on July 6, again at Nairobi, when he won a double gold - 3 miles in 13:48.8 & 6miles in 28:51.8.
But when he came down to sea level and ran in Scandinavia, he was mysteriously slower."
"Jipcho circled the track swiftly in 56 secs, with Keino (56.6) right behind......He knew there was only one way to beat Ryun. HE HAD TO TAKE EVERY POSSIBLE ADVANTAGE OF HIS BODY'S UNCOMMON ABILITY TO UTILIZE OXYGEN, DEVELOPED FROM A LIFETIME OF ACTIVITY AT HIGH ALTITUDE."............"Then Keino actually increased his pace! To experts who believed THE ALTITUDE MYTH, it seemed impossible, especially after his hectic days of wasted energy in the past week."
"Keino had run 200m in 27.5 & he was slowing very little in the homestretch. HE WAS SHOWING SURPRISED PHYSIOLOGISTS THINGS THEY COULD NEVER LEARN FROM THEIR EXPERIMENTS. HE WAS SHOWING THEM THAT 1500M RUNNERS GAINED SPEED FROM THE ALTITUDE, LIKE 800M RUNNERS, AND THE FORTUNATE ALTITUDE TRAINED RUNNERS LOST LESS SPEED THAN THEY GAINED."
Seems like Nelson knew exactly what was what. That altitude born athletes have an advantage over sea level born ones when running at altitude, and that some altitude born runners (e.g Keino) had a bigger advantage still. In fact he claims Keino actually ran faster and better at altitude in races of 1500m, than he did at sea level, as his other altitude performances indicate.
dietricia wrote:
Ron Clarke had an excellent diet. Just google it. I'd say his almost perfect diet was one of the reasons for his success.
That is wrong, and is total BS.
75% of the morbidly obese think they eat healthy diets.
J.R. wrote:
75% of the morbidly obese think they eat healthy diets.
They do, they just eat way too much of the healthy food.
Clarke ate just the right amount of his almost monk-like pure diet.
The morbidly obese think Ron Clarke ate healthy.
If the Olympics were held in 1967 at sea level, Bedford is right. Clarke would have built a 30 yard gap after 15 laps,
Nobody at that time was beating him . He smashed the world record all alone on a cinder track in heavy winds, Holding the 1968 Olympics at super high altitude was wrong.
Is this the same Clarke who set one of his WRs with a belly full of jello?
George Atlas wrote:
If the Olympics were held in 1967 at sea level, Bedford is right. Clarke would have built a 30 yard gap after 15 laps,
Nobody at that time was beating him . He smashed the world record all alone on a cinder track in heavy winds, Holding the 1968 Olympics at super high altitude was wrong.
Temu demolished Clarke in 66 as well.
Wasn't the Oslo track tartan in 65?
healhy eating obese dude wrote:
Temu demolished Clarke in 66 as well.
Wasn't the Oslo track tartan in 65?
Naftali Temu burst onto the international long-distance running scene at the 1966 Commonwealth Games in Kingston, Jamaica, where he beat the world record holder Ron Clarke to win gold in the six miles. Two days later, Temu finished fourth in the three miles.
At the 1968 Mexico Olympics, in the 10,000 metres final, only Mamo Wolde from Ethiopia managed to keep Temu's pace. Wolde went to lead at the bell, but Temu passed him with only 50 metres remaining to win the gold. Four days later, he contested the 5,000 metres final, where he won the bronze medal, only narrowly beaten by Mohammed Gammoudi from Tunisia and fellow countryman Kipchoge Keino.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftali_TemuTemu also contested the 1968 Olympic marathon, where he had anohther great battle with Wolde, but the latter broke free just after the 30-kilometre mark, and Temu only managed a 19th-place finish.
healhy eating obese dude wrote:
Wasn't the Oslo track tartan in 65?
No, the track in Oslo was still cinders in 1965:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/07/26/1216492793600.htmlOn top of that, there were only 3 competitors in the race! So Clarke basically ran 27-39 solo on cinders making his 1965 10000m world record one of the greatest runs of all time.
In 1968, Clarke ran 27-49 but on a tartan track in England though this run was in gale-force wind conditions and could be considered to comparable to his 1965 world record.