How did you know my first name was Weenie?
How did you know my first name was Weenie?
Abebe B. wrote:
Maybe his name was on the list or some protocols. However, it doesn't mean he took the drugs. The East German system/network of officials was corrupt too. Perhaps an official covered for him? What would you do if you would be force to take the drugs or otherwise your family would be in trouble for the rest of your life?
BTW his WC's son just completed a marathon in 2:24. A former Duathlete, who is planning now to focus fully on the marathon aiming for next Olympics.
Hey, I never said that WC should be publicly flogged. He should come clean about his drug use and Shorter should receive gold. My posts are a reaction to the bs pollyanna crap being spewed about WC in the original post. I never said squat about WC prior to this. However, if someone spouts off about what a great example he is, I'm going to have something to say about it. He's part of what's wrong with our sport - a sickness that is going to destroy it.
There is also the untidy matter of having been an informer for the stasi. He's not a nice guy - he was a shill for the repressive communist regime and he's a shill now for Asics. He gave many party speeches and went far out of his way to cozy up to the GDR elite - just becasue he's affable and doesn't come off a prick like Shorter doesn't excuse what he did.
HRE wrote:
Of course I don't really expect you to go to a library and do the search for me. But your answer also implies that you haven't done such a search. So what's the basis for your comment that sucha search would reveal the lists and Cierpinski's name?
I did do the google search and found no lists, a few names, and mention of a lawsuit by 190 former DDR athletes who were doped against the company that made the dope. It does not say if Cierpinski is one of those athletes. I'm pretty much left where I was when the thread started, i.e. knowing that there are documents proving that there was doping in the DDR but not knowing if Cierpinski's name turns up in any of thsoe documents or not.
I could write to Franke, though I sort of hate to bother him. Have you written to him?
And I agree with you about stripping athletes of emdals if they were dopers no matter how long ago the medals were won. But as I watch this thread unfurl, I'm also aware of the possibility of a witchunt.
Through my job, I have access to online databases and fulltext sources that you probably don't unless you also work at a University. So yes I have done the search, now please stfu about that.
In Clinical Chemistry, vol 43 issue 7 pps. 1262-1279 an account of the doping program in the GDR is found. At the time that WC was an olympic athlete, the stasi records indicate "At present anabolic steroids are applied in all Olympic sporting events, with the exception of sailing and female gymnastics" This cited on page 1264 of the aforementioned volume. This article also cites a number of other reports and studies that are useful.
In these documents marathon training and steroid regiments are detailed - the training corresponds to WC's. I think that Franke identified him in 1998, I don't remember the exact details- why don't you email the good professor for his side of it? I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you how he made the identification.
There wasn't a clean athlete in the GDR, not in youth sports or otherwise. If you aren't convinced after reading these studies then I would tend to believe that you had ulterior motives for supporting WC.
Right. I'm actually wondering why anyone would be supporting Cierpinski at this point, given what we know about East Germany and him specifically.
For your reading pleasure. And don't give us the bull shit excuse that the 10,000 kids in the system were named individually.
Wondering wrote:
Right. I'm actually wondering why anyone would be supporting Cierpinski at this point, given what we know about East Germany and him specifically.
Because everyone says his name is on a list of people identified as dopers and apparently no one, other than perhaps Franke and maybe Frank Shorter have seent he list. I'd just like to find one person on this board who talks about this list to say directly, "I've seen it." No one has as fara s I can tell.
Saying that doping was administered to athletes from all sports other than sailing and whatever doesn't mean it was applied to all athletes in those sports.
Wondering wrote:
Right. I'm actually wondering why anyone would be supporting Cierpinski at this point, given what we know about East Germany and him specifically.
Because supposedly there is hard evidence that Cierpinski doped, i.e., his name is on a list of identified dopers. But the list seems to be mythical. Just because athletes in all sports other than sailing and whatever were doped in the DDR does not necessarliy mean that all athletes in other sports were doped.
So essentially, there soesn't seem to be anyone who can pull up this list and show that Cierpinski is on it. The erplies from everyone who "knows" are essentially saying, "Go look here. Ask this person." But they evidently can't produce anything themselves which suggests to me that they've simply bought a story that's making the rounds.
Sorry for the double post. The first one didn't seem to go through so I rewrote it.
I just love how good ole American free enterprise is best at absolutely everything except providing drugs in sport. Yeah, terrible weakness that and I'm sure there's a Nobel for the economist that can explain it.
It's the old trick of you're doing something and you don't want people to "discover" this so you cast the blame on someone else who doesn't have anything to do with it. Of course there's no proof that WC did anything, but plenty of proof of the one who accused him.
dmb wrote:
Through my job, I have access to online databases and fulltext sources that you probably don't unless you also work at a University.
ooohh....impressive.....NOT. Any student at any decent university has access to such databases
dmb wrote:In Clinical Chemistry, vol 43 issue 7 pps. 1262-1279 an account of the doping program in the GDR is found. At the time that WC was an olympic athlete, the stasi records indicate "At present anabolic steroids are applied in all Olympic sporting events, with the exception of sailing and female gymnastics" This cited on page 1264 of the aforementioned volume.
In these documents marathon training and steroid regiments are detailed - the training corresponds to WC's. I think that Franke identified him in 1998, I don't remember the exact details- why don't you email the good professor for his side of it? I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you how he made the identification.
HA HA HA....THAT is what you came up with from your grand library search?? Seriously, THAT is your smoking gun, the documents that once and for all show WC's name on East German drug documents. Are you freaking kidding me?? After all your bluster and arrogance, about how the truth is black and white, and out there for all to see, you bring us back to fact that there are some documents that show that East Germany had a gov't doping program and that FRANK SHORTER linked WC's name to it. My god you are pathetic.
HRE and I never said we don't think it probable that WC used drugs (a point you ignore every time). No, we only were saying that people like you (who apparently have less functioning brain matter than Terri Schiavo had during her coma)should stop saying that WC name is linked in an ironclad way to East German drug documents if you don't have a shred of evidence, other than Frank Shorter's word, that that is true.
And at least WC didn't tinker with Pre's breaks that fateful night. THAT we know for sure.
bump - article on RW today made my search this
blahbluh wrote:
bump - article on RW today made my search this
Bump again. HRE has to see this.
Just so everyone is clear, East Germany built walls to keep their own citizens from leaving. And they shot their own citizens when they tried to leave East Germany. And East Germans still risked being shot to leave East Germany.
Hehehe wrote:
blahbluh wrote:
bump - article on RW today made my search this
Bump again. HRE has to see this.
Link?