the original poster was first talking about times Geb had to face kickers in lower events. there is ample evidence of that. now it seems you guys are changing it to times geb has been walloped by someone. morceli in 94 is an extreme case b/c 1. geb wasn't in his prime at that point and 2. morceli obviously was. my point there was to show that geb did go out run head to head with anyone. he didnt duck. not saying that Bekele ducks, he clearly doesn't.
the fray wrote:
ok, so basically Morcelli kicked Geb's ass once, and we know Komen demolished him once in a GP 5k.....any more? So at least twice, he got pummelled in races that were in his best range 3k-10k. How many times has Bekele been pummelled in races over those distances??? That's right...ZERO.
I don't know what counts as being pummelled, but I believe that Bekele has lost at least eight times in 3k and 5k track races during the last three years or so. It's true that he's essentially been outkicked each time over the last lap, but I don't see why that helps his case in this debate. If anything, it indicates that he's probably more vulnerable than Geb was in major competition.
By the way, I don't have a strong opinion about which of the two deserves to be considered the greater runner. I would probably rate Geb slightly higher on the track, because I think that he could handle a somewhat wider range of tactical races, but Bekele's cross-country racing is something special. I think that Bekele will blow away Geb's road performances if he ever goes in that direction when he's still near his peak.
Ok...I was pretty damn excited that Lagat won!!! That is awesome that a classy, genuinly nice guy like Lagat won. He has always been one of my favorites from his Wazzu days to his two Olympic medals and now as an American citizen. What he has done has been great for American distance running.
Secondly, I would agree that Bekele losing these races by getting out kicked is something Geb never did. Geb was smart enough to take out the kickers early and not leave it to a kickers race like Bekele seems to do all the time. Also last time I checked Geb never miscounted laps and started sprinting early like Bek did in Boston. both great runners but right now Geb's has the edge in my books.
mir wrote:
curious to know how many americans jumping up and down for Lagat's win ?
I was. Great race. A lot of us see him as one of many reasons to be impressed by American distance running today. Keep in mind that letsrun is primarily white and maybe about 2/3 xenophobic. But the face of American distance running is changing quickly. Immigrants are a bigger and bigger force here -- and besides the fearful ol' boys, most of us respect what they are doing.
By the way, the Great White Hope seems to fall down a lot in his races. He needs to start doing some tai chi or something.
Props to Lagat for his win. :)
So who likes Lagat to medal at 5000 in 2008? Definitely seems like a contender for gold after today.
Nugatory wrote:
So who likes Lagat to medal at 5000 in 2008? Definitely seems like a contender for gold after today.
Yep. A lot can happen in two years. I'm sure some young star will emerge. But right now you've gotta like Lagat's decision to move up to 5K.
I bet he could make a really good showing in 2008, though I also hope Teg goes sub 13 soon!!
I bet he could make a good run for gold in 2008. Hopefully in the next year some of our other boys improve - I would love to see Teg go sub 13.
Can't believe how crappy Goucher's stride is...looks awful, looks like he doesn't belong in the race. Lagat last 100m...was a great show!
8 seconds left in overtime wrote:
Sorry, but I failed this logic test... WTF?
Hmm not that hard to figure out.
Teg - born and raised here hence an American
Lagat - born and raised in Kenya a transplant here so represents USA but not an American[/quote]
F*ck you; thats all i can say.
I remember Steve Ovett saying that no matter how fast a 5 and 10 specialist can kick the last lap there is really no way he will hold off a 1500-5000 specialist if they are together with 200 to go. Steve knows what he is talking about.
i have to disagree with this, in major competitions bekele has been nothing short of awesome, i know he has done well in worlds, took the gold in the 10k in athens and the silver in the 5k losing to perhaps one of the greatest runners of all timei would say his championship record speaks for itself... who cares about these other meets
If anything, it indicates that he's probably more vulnerable than Geb was in major competition.
Geb did a world indoor 1500m and 3000m double and won both against top opposition. For 2-06 marathoner that is sick.
Hard to imagine a 26:15 guy vulnerable at anything. LOL
Tour Rider wrote:
I remember Steve Ovett saying that no matter how fast a 5 and 10 specialist can kick the last lap there is really no way he will hold off a 1500-5000 specialist if they are together with 200 to go. Steve knows what he is talking about.
May be true of world class runners but I have royally annihilated some 1500m guys at the end of a 5k, having a 1500m PR 8-10 sec slower. And they were in shape. Of course if I let the pace slack it would not have worked out.
Also recall, Ritz v. Hall in NCAA XC. I know cross country is a little different, but there are more factors.
Antiman wrote:
F*ck you; thats all i can say.
That's all you should say, now go away.
Bekele has gotten outkicked in both the World Championships and the Olympic Games, against runners with significantly slower PRs. I don't think that Geb, in his prime years, was as vulnerable in big races.
No one here is denying that Bekele is one of the all-time greats. But considering Bekele's PRs, and his ability to control a race, it surprises me how often he allows 3k and 5k races to come down to a kicker's duel. I was pulling for him against El G in the Oly 5k, and was amazed that he let the pace dawdle for so long. I doubt that El G could have handled a fast pace that day. Perhaps Bekele wasn't feeling very good himself on that occasion, but he does seem to overestimate his ability to outkick world-class kickers.
B. Real wrote:
Tour Rider wrote:I remember Steve Ovett saying that no matter how fast a 5 and 10 specialist can kick the last lap there is really no way he will hold off a 1500-5000 specialist if they are together with 200 to go. Steve knows what he is talking about.
May be true of world class runners but I have royally annihilated some 1500m guys at the end of a 5k, having a 1500m PR 8-10 sec slower. And they were in shape. Of course if I let the pace slack it would not have worked out.
Also recall, Ritz v. Hall in NCAA XC. I know cross country is a little different, but there are more factors.
I disagree with Tour Rider, but at the same time, Ritz' 1500M PR's better than Hall's.
theOTHERwhitemeat wrote:
so much for everyone but lagat...
lincoln and torres dnf?
13:58 for hall?
yikes.
Asics should tear up Hall's 4-year, 6-figure/year contract. He got it for 1 great collegiate race and has run maybe 4 good races in 4 years. He doesn't have to work only because of his running, yet he's been a bust most of the time. Must be nice to avoid the corporate 60 hour work weeks and make as much as some small-company VP's. I will give him credit for finishing though.