I don't think there was any wind gauge error per se. Wind was light to moderate all day, and when you watch the video and interviews after you see no evidence of strong winds. The wind was gusting shifting a bit however. What is possible is that the ideal '200 diagonal tail wind' prevailed during this event. This would be a diagonal tail wind blowing at maybe around 3 m/s or so at roughly 45 degrees or a bit less. It would be optimal because there would be no real headwind at the start, especially for the outer lanes, and there would a maximum (and kind of illegal) slingshot boost rounding the bend, and then you would have a helpful tail/cross wind up the straight - but measured as a vector down the home straight it would register a legal 1.7 m/s.
And finally we have a post that is the type of post we are looking for.
And I assume this type of diagonal tail wind would only be possible on a smallish track like this. Erriyon Knighton's 19.49 didn't come in a huge proper world championship stadium either.
I tried to looking up the weather conditions for the 1:55 pm start time. Can an Aussie tell me if this weather station ios right near the stadium?
It looks like the wind would have definitely been a diagonal wind. But it says it was coming out of the NW or N whereas I think an ideal would would have been out of the N / NE.
Sorry I came in here so late but as a "Close Observer", in Sydney all day, at the event the afternoon, there IS NO WAY THAT THERE WAS A TAILWIND ON THE BEND. No way that obeys the laws of Physics, and I made a detailed post about it in the other thread.
The straight as per rojo's pic, is slightly angled from the NNE. The bend starts angled fromNNW then NW, W and finally slightly SSW. The wind the entire day, without recorded gusts was NW to NNW at almost a constant 5m/s (18km/h). The stadium is NOT a bowl as someone suggested. It has only one stand that blocks a westerly. and the bend is totally open to a westerly, north westerly or northerly.
So this is how it came down to 1.7m/s tail in the straight. There would have been NW wind coming around the northern end of stand, that had enough of a northerly aspect to record the lower reading of 1.7m/s. As for the bend, physics does not explain a U turn in wind. The wind would have been mostly in their faces If there was a lull in the wind, possible, but not a U turn as there was never ever a southerly nor easterly aspect to the wind the enire day.
This , in my opinion, based on the above facts, indicate that the results are even more phenomenal.
Sorry for the caps and bold print, but to much speculation from "Distant Observers'
The issue isnt with Gout. Its everyone else crushed their PBs by massive amounts which brings into question a timing issue. Its not the wind as women had a better wind and their times did not massively improve.
Only way this was legit if each of those athletes can now race the rest of the season close to those times.
Does anyone else remember the major meet where loads of the times were just too fast, as in possibly within each athletes' ceiling, but making no sense that multiple people hit it just right in the same event?
If memory serves, suspicions were that the timing system subtracted the reaction time (kind of like in Kipyegon's breaking 4 attempt some years later).
I think it was preliminary round of the men's 100m a few outdoor championships ago. (Doha 2019?) It was somewhat of a minor curiosity, since no records were set, it didn't much affect competition (since everyone got the same advantage), and it the issue 'spontaneously' resolved before the real fast running in the semis/finals.
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Reason provided:
Historical info added.
The issue isnt with Gout. Its everyone else crushed their PBs by massive amounts which brings into question a timing issue. Its not the wind as women had a better wind and their times did not massively improve.
Only way this was legit if each of those athletes can now race the rest of the season close to those times.
Does anyone else remember the major meet where loads of the times were just too fast, as in possibly within each athletes' ceiling, but making no sense that multiple people hit it just right in the same event?
If memory serves, suspicions were that the timing system subtracted the reaction time (kind of like in Kipyegon's breaking 4 attempt some years later).
I think it was preliminary round of the men's 100m a few outdoor championships ago. (Doha 2019?) It was somewhat of a minor curiosity, since no records were set, it didn't much affect competition (since everyone got the same advantage), and it the issue 'spontaneously' resolved before the real fast running in the semis/finals.
Are you thinking of the 400m at Beijing 2015? IIRC like 3 of the guys ran under 44.
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What about Michael Johnson 19.66 to 19.32....in your reasoning is that performance questionable?
You are yet another person who is confused and has poor reading comprehension. No one is saying that ONE runner couldn't have a great performance. The point is that MANY runners in the same race had huge PBs at the same time, which is extremely unusual. That is not at all similar to Michael Johnson's 19.32 when he was the only runner who had a .34 second PB in that race.
What about Michael Johnson 19.66 to 19.32....in your reasoning is that performance questionable?
You are yet another person who is confused and has poor reading comprehension. No one is saying that ONE runner couldn't have a great performance. The point is that MANY runners in the same race had huge PBs at the same time, which is extremely unusual. That is not at all similar to Michael Johnson's 19.32 when he was the only runner who had a .34 second PB in that race.
Correct. Only MJ and Frank Fredericks ran pbs in the 1996 Olympic 200 finals.
3 other guys ran seaosnal bests and 3 guys dind't even do that.
200m 1 August Wind: 0.4 1 Michael Johnson USA 13 Sep 67 19.32 AR WR PB » No 1 USA alltime 2 Frank Fredericks NAM 2 Oct 67 19.68 AR PB » 3 Ato Boldon TTO 30 Dec 73 19.80 SB « 4 Obadele Thompson BAR 30 Mar 76 20.14 SB « 5 Jeff Williams USA 31 Dec 65 20.17 6 Iván García CUB 29 Feb 72 20.21 SB « 7 Patrick Stevens BEL 31 Jan 68 20.27 8 Michael Marsh USA 4 Aug 67 20.48
the JOKE that is americans trying to argue that the wind was quite the reason for these these PBs, when some of your high school/college meets (and records) sometimes happen under hurricane winds and you never bat an eye at those!!!
We are very critical of wind aided times/times at altitude/etc. This is because the athletes in the US are actually talented and don't have to lie and pretend we're world class.
Max Thomas (someone you've probably never heard of in your life) ran 9.90 a week ago and he has gotten 0 coverage from sports media, but Gout Gout runs mid/fake times against bums and high schoolers and he gets millions of views. It's just so funny that you're claiming that we're the ones that overeact to fake times.
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You are yet another person who is confused and has poor reading comprehension. No one is saying that ONE runner couldn't have a great performance. The point is that MANY runners in the same race had huge PBs at the same time, which is extremely unusual. That is not at all similar to Michael Johnson's 19.32 when he was the only runner who had a .34 second PB in that race.
Correct. Only MJ and Frank Fredericks ran pbs in the 1996 Olympic 200 finals.
3 other guys ran seaosnal bests and 3 guys dind't even do that.
200m 1 August Wind: 0.4 1 Michael Johnson USA 13 Sep 67 19.32 AR WR PB » No 1 USA alltime 2 Frank Fredericks NAM 2 Oct 67 19.68 AR PB » 3 Ato Boldon TTO 30 Dec 73 19.80 SB « 4 Obadele Thompson BAR 30 Mar 76 20.14 SB « 5 Jeff Williams USA 31 Dec 65 20.17 6 Iván García CUB 29 Feb 72 20.21 SB « 7 Patrick Stevens BEL 31 Jan 68 20.27 8 Michael Marsh USA 4 Aug 67 20.48
That's exactly the point.
And honestly it's hard to compare across events (like Justin making a comparison to the London 2012 800m) - because while having a race where everyone PR's in an 800 or 1500m is also very rare and tough, my gut feeling (so no evidence or anything, it's just an intuitive feeling) that the chances a sprint field PR's like this en masse and to this degree are less.
Even Usain Bolts WR race only yielded 3 PR's and that was a WC final, under lights in front of 50'000 people vs the greatest sprinter of all time in the fastest 200m of all time.
But this is in the books. End of the day the only possible explanation is that on this day there was a perfect storm where 7/9 guys ran their absolute bests in an Australian final with an insanely good wind that may have even been slightly stronger on the curve than the straight which registered just under the legal limit.
Correct. Only MJ and Frank Fredericks ran pbs in the 1996 Olympic 200 finals.
3 other guys ran seaosnal bests and 3 guys dind't even do that.
200m 1 August Wind: 0.4 1 Michael Johnson USA 13 Sep 67 19.32 AR WR PB » No 1 USA alltime 2 Frank Fredericks NAM 2 Oct 67 19.68 AR PB » 3 Ato Boldon TTO 30 Dec 73 19.80 SB « 4 Obadele Thompson BAR 30 Mar 76 20.14 SB « 5 Jeff Williams USA 31 Dec 65 20.17 6 Iván García CUB 29 Feb 72 20.21 SB « 7 Patrick Stevens BEL 31 Jan 68 20.27 8 Michael Marsh USA 4 Aug 67 20.48
That's exactly the point.
And honestly it's hard to compare across events (like Justin making a comparison to the London 2012 800m) - because while having a race where everyone PR's in an 800 or 1500m is also very rare and tough, my gut feeling (so no evidence or anything, it's just an intuitive feeling) that the chances a sprint field PR's like this en masse and to this degree are less.
Even Usain Bolts WR race only yielded 3 PR's and that was a WC final, under lights in front of 50'000 people vs the greatest sprinter of all time in the fastest 200m of all time.
But this is in the books. End of the day the only possible explanation is that on this day there was a perfect storm where 7/9 guys ran their absolute bests in an Australian final with an insanely good wind that may have even been slightly stronger on the curve than the straight which registered just under the legal limit.
Read my post above. There is zero chance that there was even a breath of wind behind them on the bend. Physically impossible. See my post above
The prevailing wind at 5m/s with gusts equal to that was constant through the afternoon
You can check the wind speeds/directions for every 30min throughout Sunday 12th via BOM site
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You're very confused and your reading comprehension is poor. The issue wasn't with Gout Gout. The issue was with A LOT of runners having a huge PB in the same race. The chances of that legitimately happening is extremely rare. It's much more likely that something else unusual happened like a timing error, or a mismeasured track, or the race being very windy before and/or after the wind gauge recorded the wind speed.
It really isn't that rare.
It used to happen every year in Monaco for 1,500m races.
Same thing at Bislett for 5,000m races.
Then at the The Ten for 10,000m races.
You get perfect conditions, athletes peaking, a big incentive to run fast (Comm Games selection), and a super fast guy dragging everyone along - and you get a ripple effect down through the field.
I agree with Fault, something isn't right. 7 of 8 ran pb and top 5 all improve by at least .20 including Gout Gout 😳. Guess The that FloJo type wind comes every 30 - 40 years.
My first guess is that something was funny with the wind rather than the timing. I don't know a huge amount about that venue, but from the video it looked like somewhat of a bowl shape, and that can lead to swirling conditions. I don't think one wind gauge completely captures the dynamic of the wind in a 200m in those circumstances.
It's the wind on the bend - non-sprinters don't get it.
The wind gauge only measures the wind on the straight. You can have a +4.0 wind around the bend and it's all fine. You want a diagonal tailwind, that is a bit more across the field, then dies a bit in the straight.
It happens -0 you get 200 races where a bunch of people PB, because the wind was right. This was also a nationals champ. Gout ran 19.85 just illegal last year, so not a stretch to improve by that much from 17 to 18yo.
Murphy has had big improvements in every event this year, including 1 second off his 400 time. So with perfect winds, not a stretch to see him improving by 0.4-0.5.
Investigate all you want, but the times stand and are legit.
This. I have seen some very fast 200m times when they have a 45 degree tailwind.
It's the wind on the bend - non-sprinters don't get it.
The wind gauge only measures the wind on the straight. You can have a +4.0 wind around the bend and it's all fine. You want a diagonal tailwind, that is a bit more across the field, then dies a bit in the straight.
It happens -0 you get 200 races where a bunch of people PB, because the wind was right. This was also a nationals champ. Gout ran 19.85 just illegal last year, so not a stretch to improve by that much from 17 to 18yo.
Murphy has had big improvements in every event this year, including 1 second off his 400 time. So with perfect winds, not a stretch to see him improving by 0.4-0.5.
Investigate all you want, but the times stand and are legit.
This. I have seen some very fast 200m times when they have a 45 degree tailwind.
+1
Wind blowing at 45 degrees can be an above 2m/s wind from 150 to 100m then 1.7 the last 100m.
Gault do some research and look at 2008 US Olympic Trials and how 12 ran PRs in the quarters. this sort of thing happens at a National champs. do your research man
Gault do some research and look at 2008 US Olympic Trials and how 12 ran PRs in the quarters. this sort of thing happens at a National champs. do your research man
So it occurs about once ever two decades. Perfectly normal.
Gault do some research and look at 2008 US Olympic Trials and how 12 ran PRs in the quarters. this sort of thing happens at a National champs. do your research man
So it occurs about once ever two decades. Perfectly normal.
That was just another example. There are plenty more but you wouldn't know that; you don't follow the sport.
