We merged two threads into 1. 1 was called "Masalela celebrates and almost loses at the like" (sic) and the other "Masalela DISQUALIFIED for pretending to shoot Habz on finish line". The first thread was started before the DQ. We have added in a full video link to what happened yesterday here: https://x.com/gabyandersengz/s....
We have clowns like Hocker and Langon shoving and tripping, no DQ. Then Masalela harmlessly goofs around and gets DQd. Absurd.
Hocker got DQ'd from the biggest race of 2025 so not sure why he is mentioned as an example.
Langon should 100% have been DQ'd, absolutely ridiculous that he wasn't. His drifting and shoulder barge is a much more obvious DQ than Masalela (who also deserved his DQ for causing Habz to pull a massive defensive arm manoeuvre when he should have been leaning for the line).
Masalela’s “gun” gesture was much more aggressive than Lyle’s pointing. I’m not a fan of any kind of showmanship. I think it’s obnoxious and unsportsmanlike. Let Barry Sanders be your model. Lyle’s didn’t deserve a dq, neither did Masalela. Both were idiotic.
It doesnt matter if you experienced it more aggressive, its in the same box, same as Hockers sleeping celebration or maybe more relevant, Bolt celebrating before the finish line. Some I like, some less, but this is way to subjective. If Kerr is an idiot and taunting, sure, idiot, makes it way more satisfying when he lose. Barry Sanders? Who cares about NFL, this is a world wide sport. Either disqualify both Lyles and Masalela or nobody. And again, if you want to look at sports, look at something worldwide like football, not NFL.
Fascinating, this have to be one of the few times Rojos take is more valid and sensible than 5+ pages of comments:
My Take: Fine Him, Don’t DQ Him Celebrating early is a great part of the sport’s theater, but taunting is a slippery slope. However, invalidating a result that everyone just witnessed in real-time feels like the wrong punishment. A fine or a future suspension would allow the results to stand while still policing the behavior. Regardless of the gesture, Masalela proved he belongs on the world stage. He should 100% be in the field at World Indoors but may miss out as he doesn’t have the qualifying time.
It was The Look, not The Gesture. If you look Masasela up, you see that the two fingers gesture is standard celebration for him. Just like it was the winning gesture for cyclist Alberto Contador (nicknamed ‘El pistolero’). So maybe if he had not looked at Habz, he would not have been disqualified.
The problem with T&F is that the only real penalty is DQ, so the range of punishment goes from nothing to the death penalty (for that race). Football has loss of yardage or possession, basketball has technicals, hockey has the penalty box, etc. and it works because they are team sports and the penalties are graduated. Even in baseball, if a player is ejected, it just means a different player takes over that spot.
Maybe there could be a fine system, but unlike pro sports where everyone presumably is being paid well in T&F that's not the case. At USAs you could have Noah Lyles running against a high school kid whose part-time job is flipping burgers. Lyles could afford to pay all sorts of fines but the high school kid couldn't. It gets messy fast and you end up with a class system where the stars can afford to taunt and others can't.
Maybe T&F needs penalty times - like a 1% time deduction or 2% time deduction, etc. You could treat the results like wind-aided sprint times. But that still wouldn't be great because makes race times inaccurate and accurate objective times are one of the things that makes track great.
Anyway, if the choice is DQ or not, I say DQ in this case. There's good celebrating (see Ezekiel Kemboi) and there's being insulting to other competitors and that needs to be discouraged.
Time penalty/deduction is too contrived and doesn't make sense in the context of a race. Do the yellow card thing like in cross country skiing (or soccer). The yellow card isn't necessarily for unsportsmanlike conduct like bumping/cutting people off and making them crash but includes a lot of things like not following marked course (similar to stepping inside the track in running), technique violations (skating in classic races, etc.), etc. Yellow cards carry over to the next FIS races, and two yellow cards means a DQ. (There might also be red cards for immediate DQa and warnings below yellow cards?)
Coe was not "flipping the bird". He was clearly gesturing with his index fingers. His display was aimed at the press and other people who had doubted him.
"Athletes and relay teams shall participate in athletics competitions with bona fide effort and shall not engage in unsporting or improper conduct. Any athlete or relay team failing to comply with this Rule may be warned or disqualified."
There's not any guidance on what may constitute "unsporting or improper conduct". It would be helpful if such guidance existed, but for now, it seems to be up to the referee's judgement.
We can debate whether we agree with the decision or not, but it was the referee's decision, not ours. Under the rules, the "proper" decision is whatever the referee decided.
Two things that NOBODY HERE is discussing, related to sports culture and general culture in Poland where this happened:
1. In most of Europe, American-style "celebrations" are not really seen in sports on the same level. NFL "slam dances" and Instagram-ready NBA "cellies" are NOT a thing in popular sports like soccer and hockey (in northern and eastern Europe, at least).
2. Anti-black racism in Poland and neighboring countries is ... different. It's not everyone, but it's a LOT of people. Any honest Polish person will tell you this.
For these reasons, it is NO SURPRISE that a runner celebrating in Poland is going to get a different response than a runner celebrating in the US. ESPECIALLY a black runner.
Two things that NOBODY HERE is discussing, related to sports culture and general culture in Poland where this happened:
1. In most of Europe, American-style "celebrations" are not really seen in sports on the same level. NFL "slam dances" and Instagram-ready NBA "cellies" are NOT a thing in popular sports like soccer and hockey (in northern and eastern Europe, at least).
2. Anti-black racism in Poland and neighboring countries is ... different. It's not everyone, but it's a LOT of people. Any honest Polish person will tell you this.
For these reasons, it is NO SURPRISE that a runner celebrating in Poland is going to get a different response than a runner celebrating in the US. ESPECIALLY a black runner.
What do you mean American-style celebrations are not seen on the same level in Europe? There literally multiple soccer players have their own signature celebrations when they score goals. There are less goals than touchdowns, but it’s a thing for sure and has been for decades
I would be interested to know these reasons knowing your historic with prejudicial suspicions.
Because it's my opinion that his 3.27.49 is not a clean performance. That's the reason.
What do you think of Cole Hocker breaking 3:30.00 for the first time in his life to run a nearly 3-second PB 3:27.65 at the Olympics in August 2024 (at 23 years old), then never breaking 3:30 again since August 2024?
By objective numbers this is easily the single most suspect middle distance performance of the 2020s. (By far the biggest outlier relative to results pre/post.)
Two things that NOBODY HERE is discussing, related to sports culture and general culture in Poland where this happened:
1. In most of Europe, American-style "celebrations" are not really seen in sports on the same level. NFL "slam dances" and Instagram-ready NBA "cellies" are NOT a thing in popular sports like soccer and hockey (in northern and eastern Europe, at least).
2. Anti-black racism in Poland and neighboring countries is ... different. It's not everyone, but it's a LOT of people. Any honest Polish person will tell you this.
For these reasons, it is NO SURPRISE that a runner celebrating in Poland is going to get a different response than a runner celebrating in the US. ESPECIALLY a black runner.
What do you mean American-style celebrations are not seen on the same level in Europe? There literally multiple soccer players have their own signature celebrations when they score goals. There are less goals than touchdowns, but it’s a thing for sure and has been for decades
Unlike soccer/football or hockey in Europe, celebrations in American basketball and football are often directed AT opposing players. (B-ball is literally where the phrase "in your face!" comes from.)
This is different that doing a back-flip and a little dance with the corner flag on a soccer field.
See the difference?
The NBA and NFL celebrations have toned down under updated rules, but if you have watched sports for 10-20-30-40 years the celebrations you see in Europe have not been nearly the same as the US.
I've lived and gone to sports games in all of these places for decades, and I love all of these sports, to be clear.
And I'm not at all surprised that a little finger point freaked out a bunch of middle-aged athletics officials in Eastern Europe.
What do you mean American-style celebrations are not seen on the same level in Europe? There literally multiple soccer players have their own signature celebrations when they score goals. There are less goals than touchdowns, but it’s a thing for sure and has been for decades
Also, show me a comparable example of this IN POLAND. Good luck.
I have to admit I watched this and had no idea what you were talking about because I couldn't see it - but at 3:31, just after the finish as he's going back down the track and the win is confirmed, he gives Lyles the double guns.
You're not wrong. I guess this totally boils down to nuance and minutiae of details because it just doesn't feel the same as the Masalea moment - but it's still a guy making guns with his hands and pointing them in the direction of someone. Doesn't feel as bad in context (also because of the manufactured "beef" between the two and the "story") but yeah this could be a construed as a double standard.
WA just needs to make an official rule about it but really it just needs the athletes to show a little bit of maturity and judgement and just, well, don't. Celebrate, wave to the crowd, do cartwheels (like Dieter Baumann in '92) - just don't make guns with your hands and point them at another athlete, it can't really be that hard can it?