I think it's f***ing funny. the little bitch deserves to be excluded from nationals for being such a whiney little fag
I think it's f***ing funny. the little bitch deserves to be excluded from nationals for being such a whiney little fag
you're a coward.
just another d3coach2, post behind a real name.
I didn't say what I said as an accusation that Elizabethtown high and triple jumpers were specifically excluded from the 2004 Indoor Championships. As explained in subsequent posts, the process behind who got in and who didn't wasn't the best way to go about it. To call up coaches and meet directors and ask them if their pit was level the past weekend and then exclude athletes based on their answers is ludicrous, pure and simple.
I tell the facts based as how I see them. I don't go on these boards telling others to "stick to what they know." Like I said at the beginning, if you have something against something I say, post behind a real name. But we're digressing from the original point. I competed against Nick and he's busted his balls for four years and a bureaucratic organization won't let him run. It's a shame and I hope it never happens again, as a fan of competitive running, the mideast region, and Division III.
Probably a UAA or MidEast chump who is upset because CMU handed it to them.
Nick, if you do not get into the meet (which it looks like is the case), you should show up to the meet and hop over the fence at the 200 mark and run the race. Just tuck in with all of us. At least as protest. I imagine you would have the support of all of us. If any official tries to pull you off, we can trample them.
Yeah Nick it's a real shame. I heard about your misfortune from Jason a couple of days ago, I\\\'m really sorry you got screwed over like that. We here at UC all share your frustration.
Good luck,
Emil
My suggestion is that just before the event is to take place all of the competitors, any of whom could have been in Nick's shoes, simply take a seat on the track in protest. The whole field would have to be in on it. When the officials prod them to get up and run, someone should hand them a petition that has been signed by as many of the athletes competing in the meet as possible. What do you say, guys? Do you have the balls to stand up for what is right, even if it doesn't directly benefit you? This will not get Nick into the meet, but it will catch the attention of the suits and return to me some faith in our "me, me, me . . ." society. Who's got the balls??
I say, show up to the meet and defecate on the track.
I understand how most of you would want Nick to run in the meet. I ran in the DIII 3 times in my career and the experience was awesome each time. I feel bad for Nick, but it is his coach's fault for not declaring the correct event. It really is that simple. A clerical error was made and the NCAA is doing the right thing by following their rules.
Suing, protesting, sitting down on the track will not accomplish anything other than being a publicity stunt. I don't think that anything will be done at the administrative level either b/c this situation is not the fault of the NCAA.
The coach is at fault, even though it was a mistake. That needs to be accepted and dealt with in a mature manner (wait, what was I thinking, this is Letsrun).
As one other poster said, why did the coach not declare for both? If you knew your athlete would not get into the 5k, it doesn't matter. If you were going to make it in both, but didn't want to run 1 or the other, I could understand not declaring. That would prevent you scratching from the whole meet.
Oh well.
This is absolute rubbish by the NCAA. Nationals should put the best athletes on the track, regardless of errors. If the athlete made the mistake that would be one thing, but this wasn't your fault at all. I can't believe that one guy tried to make a comment about you not making money. That guy probably is a jv runner who has no friends on the team, or at school, and sits around all day watching the pre movie. It is a shame that this person has life. Anyway, I hope all goes well for you, I'm sure it will if you are to be an engineer. This is a crime by the NCAA inflicted on a true student-athlete.
?????????????????? wrote:
Bureaucrats respond to problems that interupt their routine. And they will do what they need to do to keep their status quo. Multiple polite but firm emails and phone calls raising this issue is exactly what interupts their routine and their complacency of how they are handling the championships and the athletes participating in it.
If you think that "firm" phone calls and emails from letsrun readers will disrupt "their routine," you are living in a fantasy world. The e-mails will be perceived for what they are: a fringe group of cultish long-distance runners who are concerned about some random guy who didn't follow the rules and now wants to get in. Your phone calls and e-mails, as persistent as they may be, will accomplish nothing. The attempts at communication will be interpreted as an annoyance that, if anything, will reinforce their decision to exclude Nick in the first place. I stand by what I said in my post:: e-mails and phone calls do not help, and can only hurt, Nick's chance of being entered in the 10,000 meters.
That is ridiculous... just because they are following their rules does not make it right. This runner is not trying to pull some sleight of hand to upset the competitive balance of the race, or to favor himself, or any other baloney that these rules were designed to prevent. He wants to run in a race, and he is being prevented from doing so by one errant mouse-click. When a rule or law is either unjust or causes injustuce it should be protested. Find a favorable jurisdiction and motion for an injunction. Perhaps you should contact a non-sports attorney, perhaps one who is less likely to be wowed by the NCAA's stunning legal defense.
Less likely to get into the race... in case you havent been reading he did all the 'correct' things to try to get into the meet. As it stands, they are not going to call him up and say... "Mr. End, we were sitting around having a pitty party for you with some wine and cheese, and we have decided to let you into the meet." So why not call, email, and make as many people aware of what is going on and at the very least get people looking at the current system to make sure this never happens again. Of any group of people distance runners should be able to see both the short and the long term. Short term, get Nick into the meet... long term make sure this shit doesnt happen again.If I were you, I would go to the meet and jump in the race. What is the worst that can happen... you are done with your college career. Go out with a bang, wear some pieces of flare, get out there and mix it up. Create a situation the NCAA has no control over immediately and watch them respond to it.
Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:
To those of you who are sending angry e-mails and calling officials' cell phones, here is a bit of advice: Stop it. You aren't helping.
I've worked with and against bureaucrats in many contexts. The more people aggressively complain, the more intransigent the bureaucrats become. A bunch of insulting e-mails and phone calls from letsrun readers will make it *less* likely that Nick gets a chance to run. If the bureaucracy perceives this to be a "battle," then their position will become more fixed than ever.
The approach Nick and his coach have taken is the smart one: polite but persistent requests. In the event that such an approach has failed (as it appears to have in this case), then there is probably only one other option to explore: find a person, group, or corporation that provides significant financial support to the organization in question. Money talks. If you can find someone with financial influence to champion your cause, you have a shot. Such a tactic is very unlikely to succeed, especially given the time constraints here--but at least it has a chance of working. I can guarantee that the phone calls and e-mails are at best having no effect; at worst, they are hurting Nick's cause.
It's nice to know that athletic associations are tyrannically unyielding bureacracies have followed me from high school to college. The WIAA (Wisconsin) acted just like this to stop teams from going to NTN, citing decade old rules written for other sports and following the "well, we have no problem with you going, but rules are rules" practice of blindly following policies with no regards to the principles behind them. This is track and field, for crying out loud, not the army.
The other athletes should be mad that their field is being watered down. If you're going to win D3 , don' you want it to be against the best in D3?
Awful situation and I'm so sorry but this has happened before. Long before directathletics/the internet/even faxes, my former college coach forgot to declare an athlete for the NAIA marathon (sometime in the mid to late 80s) they get all the way down to the National Meet and then they tell him. How freaking awful is that?
So, having heard about that, I feel your pain and you'd think, in this day and age of technology, they'd be able to forgive that...absolutely sucks and I'm sorry.
That same athlete wasn't allowed to run either and would've probably placed in the top 5.
there are consequences for all actions PERIOD
the coach didn't follow procedure, and this is the consequence.
i get so sick of poeple who argue for no consequences.
a consequence that is known in advance.
no wrote:
there are consequences for all actions PERIOD
the coach didn't follow procedure, and this is the consequence.
i get so sick of poeple who argue for no consequences.
a consequence that is known in advance.
The person suffering the consequences is not the person whos actions caused it....I don't think it's difficult to see how this is an unfortunate and unfair situation.
Ask Dan Rather if the power of e-mails, phone calls and the internet matters...I think he'll tell you that they can get one of the most popular news anchors of the last 50 years bounced from his job......at this point, it is unlikely that Nick will get to run. However, not stepping up and getting your voice heard will result in the next kid that finds himself in Nick's situation not being able to run either. So, don't sit back in your fantasy world and "pretend" that the power of the consumer voice doesn't matter...and, more importantly, don't sit there and do NOTHING to help a fellow runner.Hoovis
Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:
If you think that "firm" phone calls and emails from letsrun readers will disrupt "their routine," you are living in a fantasy world. The e-mails will be perceived for what they are: a fringe group of cultish long-distance runners who are concerned about some random guy who didn't follow the rules and now wants to get in. Your phone calls and e-mails, as persistent as they may be, will accomplish nothing. The attempts at communication will be interpreted as an annoyance that, if anything, will reinforce their decision to exclude Nick in the first place. I stand by what I said in my post:: e-mails and phone calls do not help, and can only hurt, Nick's chance of being entered in the 10,000 meters.
Emails and phone calls would be a good idea if the NCAA was at fault, but the NCAA DID NOTHING WRONG in this case. The coach alone is at fault. No rules were broken...procedure was simply not followed. It was an honest mistake to make, but it was still a mistake. Maybe the coach can make it up to Nick by paying his airfare to some kickass race over the summer.
If I was a runner in the D3 10k, I'd feel bad for Nick, but there's no way I'm still down on the line in protest. The CMU coach clicked the wrong box on an online form...it's not like the NCAA is barring this guy from running because he's black or something. Everyone's treating this like a civil rights case.
Why is the NCAA not budging on this? Here's a hypothetical:
Say a runner is 12th on the 1500 list and 15th on the 800 list for a fictional national meet. The meet historically takes 10 in an event, so the coach figures the 1500 is his runner's best shot, so he doesn't bother entering him in the 800. Now let's say six runners don't declare in the 800 while everyone delares in the 1500. The runner is out of the 1500, but would be in on time in the 800 had he entered. The coach can now use the CMU coach's defense and say "Oops, entered him in the wrong event by accident...can I get a do over?" If you let Nick into the meet, you'd have to let our fictional mid-distance runner in as well, which I think everyone would agree is shady and wrong.