See? This is where you go off the rails and lose credibility.
I have lived long enough to see how the sport has changed. Apparently you haven't. Athletics ranks ahead of cycling for doping violations. Do you think cycling is clean?
I may very well be older than you. I get what you are saying.My position is different that yours on this, and my reason may be way different as well. I know multiple high level coaches personally and none of those would deal with or coach dirty guys. Not because I say so, but because I know who they are at their core values. Cycling actually almost endorsed drugging, how else could the complete anamoly of a guy winning 7 Tours IN A ROW in a sport where the U.S. was barely competitive in or even cared about , clearly theye did not care or test correctly. Way different circumstances. It doesn't matter to me if you agree with me, or shout over me on here about it.Its just a tiresome stock response to everything on every thread.I don't know how you even follow the sport.
I have lived long enough to see how the sport has changed. Apparently you haven't. Athletics ranks ahead of cycling for doping violations. Do you think cycling is clean?
I may very well be older than you. I get what you are saying.My position is different that yours on this, and my reason may be way different as well. I know multiple high level coaches personally and none of those would deal with or coach dirty guys. Not because I say so, but because I know who they are at their core values. Cycling actually almost endorsed drugging, how else could the complete anamoly of a guy winning 7 Tours IN A ROW in a sport where the U.S. was barely competitive in or even cared about , clearly theye did not care or test correctly. Way different circumstances. It doesn't matter to me if you agree with me, or shout over me on here about it.Its just a tiresome stock response to everything on every thread.I don't know how you even follow the sport.
Because you follow the sport you don't want to believe the extent it has been taken over by doping. I understand that. However, it is up with with cycling for doping violations.
I don't follow the sport now in the way that fans do. I used to be a fan. I am no longer. I only observe what happens in the sport. But I understand that if you and other fans thought as I do it would take away your enjoyment of the sport. Well, yes - that is what it does. It is difficult to celebrate a fraud.
There is little prospect of changing that if we remain oblivious to what has been happening. So I choose to call it out.
If you want to know what I do enjoy it is recreational amateur sport - me and my buddies playing tennis - and my interests in the arts. To me, professional sport is largely a circus today. I will watch some of it but remain sceptical of what I see. That is what knowledge of doping does.
I may very well be older than you. I get what you are saying.My position is different that yours on this, and my reason may be way different as well. I know multiple high level coaches personally and none of those would deal with or coach dirty guys. Not because I say so, but because I know who they are at their core values. Cycling actually almost endorsed drugging, how else could the complete anamoly of a guy winning 7 Tours IN A ROW in a sport where the U.S. was barely competitive in or even cared about , clearly theye did not care or test correctly. Way different circumstances. It doesn't matter to me if you agree with me, or shout over me on here about it.Its just a tiresome stock response to everything on every thread.I don't know how you even follow the sport.
Because you follow the sport you don't want to believe the extent it has been taken over by doping. I understand that. However, it is up with with cycling for doping violations.
I don't follow the sport now in the way that fans do. I used to be a fan. I am no longer. I only observe what happens in the sport. But I understand that if you and other fans thought as I do it would take away your enjoyment of the sport. Well, yes - that is what it does. It is difficult to celebrate a fraud.
There is little prospect of changing that if we remain oblivious to what has been happening. So I choose to call it out.
If you want to know what I do enjoy it is recreational amateur sport - me and my buddies playing tennis - and my interests in the arts. To me, professional sport is largely a circus today. I will watch some of it but remain sceptical of what I see. That is what knowledge of doping does.
I will say this, I am not so locked in that I cannot change an opinion or impression, your response is appreciated, the one think I tale exception to is...the first two sentences. I am a big boy, and don't need to feel good about anything to be a fan of it. I mean that sincerely, if I thought that Track and Field was AS dirty as you do, I most likely, most likely would not watch. Do I think there are outliers getting thru an imperfect testing process? Yes..do I think the drugs are always ahead of the tests....well, they surely were, and probably are now even if by a small measure.
I have long said, that veterans of the sport, especially grump ones, rarely allow for that much improvement, as they all think they have seen the best ever. It is logical to me that times and records would have come down from 40-60 years ago, to some that is hard to reconcile.The idea for example that we would not have a freak show HS'er run 3:29.45 and 1:43.64 at 21 and 4 months? That just does not set off any whistles or alarms for me, especially since I know who trained him, most of that run up to this. Like I have said for years, only or primarily in T and F do steadfast fans not allow for marked improvement without the constant, drugs, shoes, track improvement rhetoric. I think some of that matters, yes, probably not as much as some.
I believe that in last 30-55 years the norms of marks should be much faster than 3:33.x by Ryun and 1:44.x as well.
Because you follow the sport you don't want to believe the extent it has been taken over by doping. I understand that. However, it is up with with cycling for doping violations.
I don't follow the sport now in the way that fans do. I used to be a fan. I am no longer. I only observe what happens in the sport. But I understand that if you and other fans thought as I do it would take away your enjoyment of the sport. Well, yes - that is what it does. It is difficult to celebrate a fraud.
There is little prospect of changing that if we remain oblivious to what has been happening. So I choose to call it out.
If you want to know what I do enjoy it is recreational amateur sport - me and my buddies playing tennis - and my interests in the arts. To me, professional sport is largely a circus today. I will watch some of it but remain sceptical of what I see. That is what knowledge of doping does.
I will say this, I am not so locked in that I cannot change an opinion or impression, your response is appreciated, the one think I tale exception to is...the first two sentences. I am a big boy, and don't need to feel good about anything to be a fan of it. I mean that sincerely, if I thought that Track and Field was AS dirty as you do, I most likely, most likely would not watch. Do I think there are outliers getting thru an imperfect testing process? Yes..do I think the drugs are always ahead of the tests....well, they surely were, and probably are now even if by a small measure.
I have long said, that veterans of the sport, especially grump ones, rarely allow for that much improvement, as they all think they have seen the best ever. It is logical to me that times and records would have come down from 40-60 years ago, to some that is hard to reconcile.The idea for example that we would not have a freak show HS'er run 3:29.45 and 1:43.64 at 21 and 4 months? That just does not set off any whistles or alarms for me, especially since I know who trained him, most of that run up to this. Like I have said for years, only or primarily in T and F do steadfast fans not allow for marked improvement without the constant, drugs, shoes, track improvement rhetoric. I think some of that matters, yes, probably not as much as some.
I believe that in last 30-55 years the norms of marks should be much faster than 3:33.x by Ryun and 1:44.x as well.
.
You say "if I thought that Track and Field was AS dirty as you do, I most likely, most likely would not watch." I think that is what I was saying. You would naturally be disinclined to think as I do, as your interest in the sport would be lost.
I also don't say there would be no significant improvements in performance since the era of Ryun et al. There would be. However, the degree that drugs have invaded professional sport means we are unable to confidently know what would be a clean level of improvement. That even applies to college sport and seniors. But what I often see regularly invites scepticism. There are many threads and commenters here who indicate the same. Too much of it is too good to be true. Cycling showed that and according to WADA figures athletics is in the same bag.
Don't think it's safe to say he treated 800 as an afterthought, after a PB and 5th in fastest-ever 1500 Olympic final.
What? That doesn’t refute my point. He prioritized the 1500 and treated the 800 as an afterthought. He disrespected the 800.
Did Hobb step on your puppy or something? You sound like a bitter turd, honestly. He made the team fair and square, beating all comers at the trials while still doubling. The lengths some bitter failures will go to to find a negative take.
The issue isn't a double per se but the 800/1500. It isn't like any other. It looks to be out of reach of anyone currently.
The only person who's done it successfully is Ramzi who should have an asterisk next to that for pretty obvious reasons.
I think the 1500 takes a ton out of you for normal doubling as it's anaerobic but also hits your aerobic system strongly during the race - I occasionally would run a double in high school and rarely in college (4x800, 3200 and occasionally 800, 1500/mile or 2 of 3 of the 800, 1500 and 5000) and any time I'd run the 1500 first I'd feel wiped. There's just too much of your anaerobic system used while also being aerobic enough it depletes both. If I'd run 800 and 5000 I'd run well enough on the 5000 (if the 800 was first) but but 1500 first leaves you wiped
He just ran a top-5 time in American history in the world's premier mid-distance event against arguably the greatest field ever assembled and on the grandest possible stage. I can't even imagine the how hard it must be for a 21-year old to experience that kind of professional high and then have to come back and try to deliver the same sort of performance only a few days later. He's already exceeded everyone's expectations for these Olympics, anything he achieved in the 800m was just going to be icing on the cake, particularly when several people in the field have run 1-2 seconds faster than him.
LRC is mostly populated by no talent turds, former high school JV scrubs, and fat old hobby joggers that know nothing of top flight athletics. This place is no better than the ball sports sites where morbidly obese senior citizens and unemployed losers kvetch about their local team while pretending that they can suit up and play better than anyone on the current roster.
Because you follow the sport you don't want to believe the extent it has been taken over by doping. I understand that. However, it is up with with cycling for doping violations.
I don't follow the sport now in the way that fans do. I used to be a fan. I am no longer. I only observe what happens in the sport. But I understand that if you and other fans thought as I do it would take away your enjoyment of the sport. Well, yes - that is what it does. It is difficult to celebrate a fraud.
There is little prospect of changing that if we remain oblivious to what has been happening. So I choose to call it out.
If you want to know what I do enjoy it is recreational amateur sport - me and my buddies playing tennis - and my interests in the arts. To me, professional sport is largely a circus today. I will watch some of it but remain sceptical of what I see. That is what knowledge of doping does.
I will say this, I am not so locked in that I cannot change an opinion or impression, your response is appreciated, the one think I tale exception to is...the first two sentences. I am a big boy, and don't need to feel good about anything to be a fan of it. I mean that sincerely, if I thought that Track and Field was AS dirty as you do, I most likely, most likely would not watch. Do I think there are outliers getting thru an imperfect testing process? Yes..do I think the drugs are always ahead of the tests....well, they surely were, and probably are now even if by a small measure.
I have long said, that veterans of the sport, especially grump ones, rarely allow for that much improvement, as they all think they have seen the best ever. It is logical to me that times and records would have come down from 40-60 years ago, to some that is hard to reconcile.The idea for example that we would not have a freak show HS'er run 3:29.45 and 1:43.64 at 21 and 4 months? That just does not set off any whistles or alarms for me, especially since I know who trained him, most of that run up to this. Like I have said for years, only or primarily in T and F do steadfast fans not allow for marked improvement without the constant, drugs, shoes, track improvement rhetoric. I think some of that matters, yes, probably not as much as some.
I believe that in last 30-55 years the norms of marks should be much faster than 3:33.x by Ryun and 1:44.x as well.
.
Watch a replay of the 800 final and tell me doping didn't play a part in that.
The OP is a troll not actually looking for answers, he’s trying to get you all riled up and he did… 6 pages worth. Stop feeding the flames and just ignore the post.