I understand the DQ now, even though I would be perfectly ok if it didn’t happen. I’m not sure I understand the race angle that you think applies.
IMO, if Mu were DQ’d in this way, there would have been a much greater outcry that the official must have been a racist to DQ her for that minor infraction. I bet had the roles been reversed, she would not have been DQ’d, which is practically the opposite of the point you’re trying to make.
Mu would have most certainly been dq'd. If not by the official on the scene it would be based on a protest by one of the other competitors.
There is very little margin for nuance with this rule.
As to why this happened, it's because whomever was next on the time qualifier list appealed (or more likely their coach appealed). It looks to be Tinoda Matsatsa from Georgetown.
And here's where I think we get this thing wrong: Matsatsa wasn't even in the heat race with Holt. The coaches of the people in the heat race with Holt said "yeah, it didn't make a difference," and chose not to appeal. But when you're in another heat, you can appeal if you just miss a time qualification. I think that's bonkers, and that appeals should be restricted to people in the same heat.
You know what, screw this Tinoda Matsatsa guy. I'm going to be a hater and root against him the entirety of his sure to be brief career. This is very lame behavior and bad sportmanship by him, I don't care if his "coaches" made the appeal. It's a similar level of lameness as parking police have. I don't care if it's a matter of "the rules" it's lame, effeminate, prissy behavior.
Baloney. Holt didn’t get DQ’d because anyone appealed. He got DQ’d because an official saw the violation as soon as it happened and raised the flag in accordance with his duties.
Don’t make a person of color a scapegoat for the failure of a white man to follow the rules.
He was assigned lane 9 and took several steps in lane 8 on the opening turn. Appropriate DQ
I know there’s a history in this country of white men going into any territory that doesn’t belong to them and claiming it as theirs because of some “manifest destiny” nonsense, but you can’t do that in track. The lanes are there for a reason. People need to stay in their lane.
No final for Holt.
Okay, I think you can calm down on this "white men of privilege" narrative you have that is either a) some kind of weird white guilt thing you have yourself as a white man or b) some function you think is making you sound like some "articulate philanthropist of the track minorities" (who actually aren't even minorities). We got it.
So it's now pretty clear what happened and when it happened. Yeah he had the gimpy start where he kind of steps on the same spot twice but obviously stays in his lane and that flag is up inside of the first 50m of the race so he's taken some amount of steps close enough to the line for it to be deemed worthy of a DQ. To the letter of the law it's impossible to argue against this.
But this is my issue and it would be my issue if Brandon Miller was the guy DQ'd, if it was Nia Akins DQ'd, if it was the ghost of Peter Snell DQ'd - the enforcement of rules are not consistent and neither are the punishments relative to the infraction.
I think this message board, all emotion removed, can agree on two basic things. Yes Eric Holt took at least one step where his left foot crossed the line and touched the tartan of lane 8. It had to have. And the footage we see confirms how close to the line he was and we already know he is a little ungainly in his form so the official isn't wrong. But we also can agree that big picture the impact of those steps was absolutely zero. There is far too much that happens in an 800m for that to matter. I mean we could even hypothesize it actually hurt him - maybe the 5 inch "advantage" he got actually meant he had to slow down when the runners converged and that hurt him ever so slightly physiologically - the point is we don't know and there was just so much race left and ultimately he ended up 5m ahead of Kidder so it's hard to make a logical case 5 inches translated to 5 meters at the finish.
So how does the punishment fit the "crime" - especially when the vast majority of the race is judged under rules that are completely open to arbitrary interpretation and a lot of the happenings really do have an impact on the race. The most (in)famous moment in these trials is Athing Mu. Who caused herself to fall but compromised an entire race and one athlete in a massive way that could have career altering impact - and yet she still sits in the results with a performance credited to her. So how does this work?
Contact in a race, "impeding of another runner" are all judged on a case to case basis and judged on severity relative to outcome. How is a lane infraction of this magnitude not - especially when it's clearly not part of some premeditated plan to gain an advantage? If he was 80 of the 100m in lane 8, allowing him an advantageous spot on the track and his presence hidnering Koech from doing the same, then let's go to review and do what's right. This had ZERO impact on the outcome of the race and that is what the rules, the spirit of the rules and enforcement of them are supposed to be. It's not right and it hasn't been right for every athlete caught up in them irrespective of gender, race, skin color, age.
He knew the rules. He should have followed them. Staying in your lane is one of the most basic concepts in the sport. If he can’t follow that basic rule, he doesn’t deserve to be in the final. The rules are the rules. No special treatment for the white guy.
This is not the NFL. There is no do over. Be consistent. What about elbows and pushing in women's 1500 (see st. purrier and sage hurta klecker at 200 in). How is that not an advantage or disadvantage.
The 800 is by far the toughest race. Too fast and all so close. High danger of falls or possible DQ with dumb 100 meter in lane to start race.
As to why this happened, it's because whomever was next on the time qualifier list appealed (or more likely their coach appealed). It looks to be Tinoda Matsatsa from Georgetown.
And here's where I think we get this thing wrong: Matsatsa wasn't even in the heat race with Holt. The coaches of the people in the heat race with Holt said "yeah, it didn't make a difference," and chose not to appeal. But when you're in another heat, you can appeal if you just miss a time qualification. I think that's bonkers, and that appeals should be restricted to people in the same heat.
You know what, screw this Tinoda Matsatsa guy. I'm going to be a hater and root against him the entirety of his sure to be brief career. This is very lame behavior and bad sportmanship by him, I don't care if his "coaches" made the appeal. It's a similar level of lameness as parking police have. I don't care if it's a matter of "the rules" it's lame, effeminate, prissy behavior.
You might want to slow down there, Slick. If you read the rest of this thread, you'll see that it seems Holt was flagged by the officials as soon as he ran out of his lane. B/c they'd flagged him, the the officials had to rule on him, whether or not anyone else appealed.
He knew the rules. He should have followed them. Staying in your lane is one of the most basic concepts in the sport. If he can’t follow that basic rule, he doesn’t deserve to be in the final. The rules are the rules. No special treatment for the white guy.
What’s with all the white guy comments. Don’t see that it’s relevant.
"Do you have a dorsal fin? To train ze dolphin you must zink like ze dolphin! You must be getting inside ze dolphin's head. I am saying to Snowflake, "Akay!... Akay Akay Akay?" und he is saying "AKay Akay!" und he is up on ze tail "Eeeeeeeeee!" und you can quote him" - Heinz Getwellvet
He knew the rules. He should have followed them. Staying in your lane is one of the most basic concepts in the sport. If he can’t follow that basic rule, he doesn’t deserve to be in the final. The rules are the rules. No special treatment for the white guy.
Let's make sure we DQ Athing Mu then too please. She should have followed the rules. Not sidestepping across a lane into the path of others and impeding them is one of the most basic concepts in the sport. If she can’t follow that basic rule, she doesn’t deserve to have a performance accredited to her in the final. The rules are the rules. No special treatment for the black girl.
Correction: Both Mu’s and Holt’s appeals were denied. Appropriately so.
Uhhh - no my friend, SHE should have been DQ'd. Her appeal was denied because she caused all of that carnage herself.
And my point is that I couldn't care less they didn't DQ her -what happened was bad enough. But if we are nullifying the result of a guy that took a handful of steps fractionally over a line that had zero impact on a race, surely we are nullifying the results of someone that had a massive (negative) impact on a race for people other than themselves. Therein lies the massive inconsistencies to these rules. That's the end of the discussion.
Rule 162 of the USATF Handbook: The starter shall not activate the starting device while any competitor is in motion nor before the Starter has ascertained that each competition is steady.
That did not happen - it is very clear in the replay. DQ the Starter.
. . . ultimately he ended up 5m ahead of Kidder so it's hard to make a logical case 5 inches translated to 5 meters at the finish.
So how does the punishment fit the "crime"?
This is not how dq decisions are made, but if it were, the relevant margin of victory would have been the 7 hundredths of a second faster that his time was relative to Tinoda's. Do you think officials should measure the distance gained by runners who run in the wrong lane, approximate the time that it saves them, and add that amount to their times?