LRC note. We changed the title of the thread to make it more clear what exactly happened. The thread was initially entiteld, "Transgender sprinter wins Oregon girls' state championship 200". Moving forward, you must be a registered user to post.
Booing a teenager because you don’t agree with the state’s policies is pretty low, and I’m someone who agrees that trans athletes who are not on hormone blockers should compete as their biological sex.
I don't want to hear about how it was bad to boo. If was at the meet with my daughter, I'd be upset if my daughter didn't boo. This is a clear case of the trans athlete marginalizing female bodied people. The sympathy belongs with them not the trans athlete who had never run track before in their life until 3 months ago and now is the greatest 'girls' HS track athlete in Portland history.
Everyone knows girls and women’s sports was created as a sex classification not gender. As as result, it's simply wrong to have male bodied people competing in girls and women’s class-based sport, just as it's wrong to have a 16-year-old competing in a younger age group. It’s simply a class distinction designed to promote competition within classes of people and a trans woman isn't part of that class. And it’s particularly obnoxious when people from a different more competitive class beat out those they’re pretending to be a part of and ally for because in reality it's misogynistic.
The Little Rock Nine were a group of nine Black students who enrolled at formerly all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, in September 1957. Their attendance at the school was a test of Brown v. Board of Educa...
That is not true. First of all, most of us are dads, not "monsters" and we have always cared about our daughters' opportunities. We were also livid when the boys football program got $10,000 worth of new jerseys and the girls volleyball team was forced to wear old, ill-fitting gear from ten years ago.
It is almost always about equity, not about "hating trans people." I could care less about how you dress or what pronoun you use. But a biological male can't barge into the locker room or onto the field and dominate the girls sports. Does that make me a hater?
Girls deserve fair and equal opportunities in sports. That has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with biology...
As I pointed out before, there are boys in Oregon who are faster than the women's world records, that is why we have separate divisions. Not because anyone "hates" another person.
This is all as much of a claim, if not moreso, as being transgender. But feel free to link all your posts defending women athletes 10+ years ago in the absence of transgenders.
What in the world are you talking about?
Being a dad and caring about sporting opportunities for our daughters is "all as much of a claim, if not moreso, as being transgender." ?!?
It’s exactly the same thing. Angry people don’t get to make the rules.
OK, so you've self-identified as not sane. I can respect that.
You are dismissed.
You’re making the argument the spectators decide who can compete, and despite your dismissal, I’m still here. The irony is that LR moderators decide who can post here, and not irritated fellow posters.
We are not scouring the "interwebs." We live here and our kids race here. We are the people in the stands. We care because this isn't just a "theory," it is a real-life situation for our daughters.
So where are all the other trans athletes in this track meet? Didn't you tell us there were "a handful" of trans athletes at every school in your state? So far, only one athlete has been reported. Why isn't Reduxx doxxing all the others?
Most trans athletes, like all athletes, are average. They are not on our radar. If that was the case 100% of the time, this would not even be an issue. Hopefully nobody has a problem with that. Let kids be kids... unless they are undermining the entire premise of girls sport (that girls need their own division because they can't compete against boys in sports).
BTW, I was recently at a meet where a female (trans-boy) ran in the boys race and was dead last. Nobody was "outraged" because it didn't hurt anyone and the kid was happy. Not much downside there, is there?
But this is getting more and more common even if we don't see all these kids winning the state meet.
That is not true. First of all, most of us are dads, not "monsters" and we have always cared about our daughters' opportunities. We were also livid when the boys football program got $10,000 worth of new jerseys and the girls volleyball team was forced to wear old, ill-fitting gear from ten years ago.
This is all as much of a claim, if not moreso, as being transgender. But feel free to link all your posts defending women athletes 10+ years ago in the absence of transgenders.
Sorry I wasn't posting about the softball field funding debate from 10 years ago... It didn't seem germane to Letsrun...
And I can't speak for everyone on this issue, obviously. I am only referring to the dads I know in the Pacific NW who are super nice, good parents, open-minded, staunchly democrat voters who are 100% against trans girls in competitive sports.
These are parents who have supported and educated their daughters in the world of sports since they were little, pushed for equal resources (compared to the boys), and backed their daughters up season after season. It is really a title IX issue, not a "we hate trans kids" issue.
This is all as much of a claim, if not moreso, as being transgender. But feel free to link all your posts defending women athletes 10+ years ago in the absence of transgenders.
Sorry I wasn't posting about the softball field funding debate from 10 years ago... It didn't seem germane to Letsrun...
And I can't speak for everyone on this issue, obviously. I am only referring to the dads I know in the Pacific NW who are super nice, good parents, open-minded, staunchly democrat voters who are 100% against trans girls in competitive sports.
These are parents who have supported and educated their daughters in the world of sports since they were little, pushed for equal resources (compared to the boys), and backed their daughters up season after season. It is really a title IX issue, not a "we hate trans kids" issue.
Would the super nice dads you know go to a meet and actually boo a teenager? Would you? Parents doing so is the thread topic.
Everyone in the South, including Governor Wallace, knew that black students had no business attending a white high school.
The clear difference is that the rationale for segregation in schools had nothing inherently to do with education itself -- there's no reason whites and blacks can't learn the same things and be evaluated by the same educational criteria. Whereas the whole rationale for separate male and female athletics IS specific to athletics: male and female bodies simply have different capabilities, as shown by any look at the record books or comparison of performances in any championship.
I'd argue it's actually the trans sports activists who resemble the segregationists: both impose a pre-packaged, all-encompassing ideology on particular realms (whether of education, sports, etc.) while willfully disregarding the kinds of criteria and evidence that are actually proper to these realms.
The clear difference is that the rationale for segregation in schools had nothing inherently to do with education itself -- there's no reason whites and blacks can't learn the same things and be evaluated by the same educational criteria. Whereas the whole rationale for separate male and female athletics IS specific to athletics: male and female bodies simply have different capabilities, as shown by any look at the record books or comparison of performances in any championship.
I'd argue it's actually the trans sports activists who resemble the segregationists: both impose a pre-packaged, all-encompassing ideology on particular realms (whether of education, sports, etc.) while willfully disregarding the kinds of criteria and evidence that are actually proper to these realms.
There were millions of segregationists who would claim that blacks attending public schools was not “proper” based on “criteria and evidence.”
Here is my “pre-packaged, all-encompassing ideology”: Girls should run compete in the girls category. ALL girls. Transgender and “biological girls” as you people like to call them.
If you disagree with that, then it is not because of any sports-related reason. It’s because you don’t really believe that transgender girls are girls. This is why the segregation analogy is so fitting.
This is all as much of a claim, if not moreso, as being transgender. But feel free to link all your posts defending women athletes 10+ years ago in the absence of transgenders.
Sorry I wasn't posting about the softball field funding debate from 10 years ago... It didn't seem germane to Letsrun...
And I can't speak for everyone on this issue, obviously. I am only referring to the dads I know in the Pacific NW who are super nice, good parents, open-minded, staunchly democrat voters who are 100% against trans girls in competitive sports.
These are parents who have supported and educated their daughters in the world of sports since they were little, pushed for equal resources (compared to the boys), and backed their daughters up season after season. It is really a title IX issue, not a "we hate trans kids" issue.
You're an angel in a heavenly chorus booing a child participating in an extracurricular activity for fun.
The clear difference is that the rationale for segregation in schools had nothing inherently to do with education itself -- there's no reason whites and blacks can't learn the same things and be evaluated by the same educational criteria. Whereas the whole rationale for separate male and female athletics IS specific to athletics: male and female bodies simply have different capabilities, as shown by any look at the record books or comparison of performances in any championship.
I'd argue it's actually the trans sports activists who resemble the segregationists: both impose a pre-packaged, all-encompassing ideology on particular realms (whether of education, sports, etc.) while willfully disregarding the kinds of criteria and evidence that are actually proper to these realms.
There were millions of segregationists who would claim that blacks attending public schools was not “proper” based on “criteria and evidence.”
Here is my “pre-packaged, all-encompassing ideology”: Girls should run compete in the girls category. ALL girls. Transgender and “biological girls” as you people like to call them.
If you disagree with that, then it is not because of any sports-related reason. It’s because you don’t really believe that transgender girls are girls. This is why the segregation analogy is so fitting.
And if you believe that, then you are really arguing for one division in sports, just as there is only one public school system for all races post desegregation. Ending segregation is ending segregation.
This is the only logical end point of your argument anyways. I mean what rationale besides biology would support there being two divisions? Because you think that athletes in the girls division don’t train as hard? Because they like to wear dresses and are not as tough? Because they don’t care about winning as much as boys do? Because they should go back to being cheerleaders?
Are girls on average much slower, weaker, and smaller than boys because they identify as girls, or because they are biologically female?
Exactly what would be the reason for having two divisions in sports if not biology?
It’s because you don’t really believe that transgender girls are girls.
I can believe several things at once.
I can believe that gender is a man-made construct, so trans girls are girls. I will call them by their chosen names and pronouns.
I can believe that trans girls are not XX humans and never will be.
I can believe that the original intent of sport categorization, which we should return to, was to divide by genetic differences and not by self-assigned or self-determined gender, as a construct.
I can believe that we should redefine the divisions as the XX Division (previously called "girls' or women's division) and Open Division, for everyone who is not an XX human, regardless of their gender.
I can also believe that in the incredibly few cases of gene mutation or abnormality, we can treat those on a per-case basis to determine the appropriate category.
This is the only logical end point of your argument anyways. I mean what rationale besides biology would support there being two divisions? Because you think that athletes in the girls division don’t train as hard? Because they like to wear dresses and are not as tough? Because they don’t care about winning as much as boys do? Because they should go back to being cheerleaders?
Are girls on average much slower, weaker, and smaller than boys because they identify as girls, or because they are biologically female?
Exactly what would be the reason for having two divisions in sports if not biology?
Nailed it.
Everyone knows the female sports category exists because of biology/sex and not gender. I think the argument could be made that the trans athletes like Gallagher are violating the American with Disabilities Act which "guarantees equal opportunity for individuals with disabilities" because in sports a female body is a disability. As I wrote earlier, Gallagher is marginalizing the obstacle that female bodied people face in sports.
This is the only logical end point of your argument anyways. I mean what rationale besides biology would support there being two divisions? Because you think that athletes in the girls division don’t train as hard? Because they like to wear dresses and are not as tough? Because they don’t care about winning as much as boys do? Because they should go back to being cheerleaders?
Are girls on average much slower, weaker, and smaller than boys because they identify as girls, or because they are biologically female?
Exactly what would be the reason for having two divisions in sports if not biology?
Nailed it.
Everyone knows the female sports category exists because of biology/sex and not gender. I think the argument could be made that the trans athletes like Gallagher are violating the American with Disabilities Act which "guarantees equal opportunity for individuals with disabilities" because in sports a female body is a disability. As I wrote earlier, Gallagher is marginalizing the obstacle that female bodied people face in sports.
This ^ is obviously correct. Well said by the Antelope.
