Kiptum's coach - "Doping is everywhere in Kenya, it's the clumsy ones who are caught”

This looks like uninformed sensational fan speculation. What do anti-doping authorities say?

In 2017, WADA collaborated with the AIU and ADAK to look at Kenyan doping practices.

Their report did not identify any involvement of foreign managers or coaches, but repeatedly mentioned the significant role of local chemists and doctors.

Like Kiptum's coach said, there is a significant amount of doping busts related to normal medical treatments, often for running injuries, but also illnesses like malaria, where the athlete/chemist/doctor lacks the education and awareness of the athlete's obligations under the WADA Code:

"Athletes in Kenya are insufficiently educated on doping and/or willfully blind as to the consequences of doping."

"The role of local medical practitioners and quasi-medical personnel (e.g. chemists) is highly relevant to the accessibility of Prohibited Substances to athletes and their entourage."

"Some local medical practitioners and quasi-medical personnel are unaware and/or willfully blind to their role in facilitating the access of athletes and their entourage to Prohibited Substances."

Does it? Then it would mean it either was Significant Fault or it was Negligence, so the coach and you are pushing it by claiming "the athlete was negligent".

But I still don't think your interpretation is correct. This is all about

10.5 Reduction of the Period of Ineligibility based on No Significant Fault or Negligence

, as explained in point 87 of the ruling:

"According to the ADR, an athlete may have the applicable period of Ineligibility reduced on the basis of No Significant Fault or Negligence"

So contrary to your first claim, Negligence may lead to a reduced ban, which did not happen here.

You have no data to support yours because there never has been a study in which doped elite athletes have participated and you accept no authoritative source accept such "data". You therefore have no data and no source. So everything you maintain is merely speculation without a factual basis.

I'll go with Kiptum's coach's comments, that "doping is everywhere in Kenya", over anything you have to say.

Careful how you parse the phrase. As WADA defines it, negligence may lead to a reduced ban only if it was established that such negligence "was not significant". To understand how to parse and interpret the phrase properly, it might help to read how WADA defines the whole phrase:

No Significant Fault or Negligence: "The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that any Fault or Negligence, when viewed in the totality of the circumstances and taking into account the criteria for No Fault or Negligence, was not significant in relationship to the anti-doping rule violation."

The criteria for No Fault or Negligence: "The Athlete or other Person’s establishing that he or she did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected even with the exercise of utmost caution, that he or she had Used or been administered the Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method or otherwise violated an anti-doping rule."

You should also take care that WADA's definitions and interpretations often differ from the real world, as WADA favors ease of adjudication over real world accuracy. A real world claim (i.e. not in front of arbitrators, but a quote from a non-party in a news article years later) that an "undisciplined" athlete was "negligent" in his obligations during "medical treatment" may be an accurate description of the chain of events as they happened. But viewed under WADA's principle of "strict liability", would not qualify for any relief under WADA's definitions, as an athlete is expected to be aware of his obligations, and has a duty to exercise diligence and caution, and neglecting to do so is generally considered significant.

We were not talking about my views. The issue you are avoiding here by changing the subjects is your serial failure to support your many claims, as well as the failure of any of your "authorities" to support them.

My expressed view here is that your strongly held beliefs are lacking and wanting in facts, evidence, and observations, and can only be arrived at by assuming the conclusions as givens, in order to conclude the assumptions.

We aren't talking about your views because you have no data of the kind that supports them. You deflect to my "sources" - as you do with everyone - in order to declare them "fraudulent". I'm not interested in trying change a mind made-up - and quite mad. I am happy to describe you as "clueless" - as Sage Canaday does - without having to prove that. You have done it already. You never stop.

I am happy to describe you as "donkey" - as Renato Canova does - without having to prove that.

Unfortunately for you, that proves more about you.

Renato meanwhile makes definitive claims about doping when he admits he has no experience of it or of coaching or even knowing athletes who have doped. I think we can see who the real ass is here.

If we were not talking about my views, what data should I have? We were talking about your views, if any authorities express the same views. Apparently you have none. If you have no sources, then it is just your own brown-tinged imagination and belief -- that is why all your statements can be safely ignored without any loss.

Despite you quoting these terms, I did not call your sources "fraudulent", and Sage Canaday did not call me "clueless".

Wouldn't your own criteria make you the ass? Who here has experience doping elite runners in order to improve elite performances?

Salazar...

How about Ramzi, Kiprop and every second Kenyan distance runner?

How many synonyms are there for the least informed poster on the topic on Letsrun?

Irrelevant casuistry - lying, in other words. You said:

"Which of your false authorities say what you say?"(quote)

"False" or "fraudulent" - tomarto or tomayto.

As for what Sage said about you, take your pick - "the least-informed poster on doping on Letsrun", or "clueless". You satisfy all or any criteria for stupidity.

Come on Reky, look at the Kenyan doping suspensions. Hundreds of them. And they're only the ones that have been sloppy enough to get caught. Surely you read about the Kenyan that was popped using rat poison as blood thinners? Gold medalists have been done. Majors winners. Face it, dope works. Cheating pays the bills. You really think all of these runners are taking drugs that don't allow them to train harder and race faster. Really?

Salazar what? Salazar is not here, and it is not clear he ever doped any elite athlete, except for himself, at the end of his career, after the Duel in the Sun caused permanent damage.

They are also not here. I asked "Who here has ..."

It is also not clear these doped runners performed faster than their natural potential. Kiprop was getting slower. Except for a handful, most of the Kenyans are no-name runners -- many of whom, like Kiptum's coach said, and anti-doping experts at WADA, AIU, and ADAK said in 2017, are victims of a lack of education and information, and negligent during medical treatments.

It only proves that a much respected coach called you donkey, Assstronglivs.