I got back into racing after a few years away and had to get a pair of carbon plated shoes just to be competitive in my age group locally. I'm not talking very fast times but we have quite a few races with money ($25-$100 for AG placing).
I actually love the technology and the feel of the super shoes but it's crazy that I needed them for local races.
You are a responder to the carbon plated shoes, nothing wrong with that. For nonresponders to carbon plated shoes such as myself, using that shoe produces a slower time, assuming I make it to the starting line at all.
There's no such thing as a "nonresponder." That's a myth invented by people who don't understand statistics.
You are a responder to the carbon plated shoes, nothing wrong with that. For nonresponders to carbon plated shoes such as myself, using that shoe produces a slower time, assuming I make it to the starting line at all.
There's no such thing as a "nonresponder." That's a myth invented by people who don't understand statistics.
I have a response, its true, but its negative. When I tried to force myself to run in plated shoes, after several bad runs, I got a calf strain which took 6 weeks to return from. Colloquially, those with a negative response to the shoes are just lumped in as nonresponders. The sample size of people who care about running enough to care about shoes is too small to do otherwise, barring an academic environment.
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As experiment I tried to run trails in vivobarefoot Magna Forest Esc. No running shoes at all, but; there's wide space for the forefoot, has a firm grip, made from leather and wool inside so no plastics, no sweating. If you tighten the laces on the mid foot, you've got one of the best running shoe's at this moment imo.
I managed to get a pair of adizero rockets on ebay that I guess had just been sitting around somewhere. It's incredible how good they feel to run in. The last couple times I tried this (ebaying these shoes) the glue holding the soles together failed within a couple weeks, but these seem to be holding up. I hope these hold up half a year or more, they feel like running is supposed to feel.
1 month update. The past month has been one of the best months of running I've had in the past few years - and that's even with the government's theft of one hour of evening daylight. No foot problems whatsoever. Those who haven't run in a relatively low stack marathon flat like this don't know what they're missing. These shoes are suitable for any terrain, so long as its not too muddy. I think they'll be worn out by the time I'm ready to peak for a race again in late spring, but who knows. I wish I could get another pair. That this will be the last time I run in such a great shoe makes me really sad.
I managed to get a pair of adizero rockets on ebay that I guess had just been sitting around somewhere. It's incredible how good they feel to run in. The last couple times I tried this (ebaying these shoes) the glue holding the soles together failed within a couple weeks, but these seem to be holding up. I hope these hold up half a year or more, they feel like running is supposed to feel.
1 month update. The past month has been one of the best months of running I've had in the past few years - and that's even with the government's theft of one hour of evening daylight. No foot problems whatsoever. Those who haven't run in a relatively low stack marathon flat like this don't know what they're missing. These shoes are suitable for any terrain, so long as its not too muddy. I think they'll be worn out by the time I'm ready to peak for a race again in late spring, but who knows. I wish I could get another pair. That this will be the last time I run in such a great shoe makes me really sad.
2 month update: one of the uppers is beginning to separate from the sole. This happens with old shoes from the 2000s and 2010s for some reason. The glue just fails. I'm still using them for now, but I don't think I'll race in them again and will prob start using the sinister for speed work.
Are there any flats coming out next year I should be on the look out for?
I'm not quite a "daily run in flats" guy but I find most daily trainers of the last few years way overbuilt. Even the vaunted Kinvara is up there in stack height now! The trend of softer cushion, high stack, or forefoot rockers start giving me lower back and hip pains after a few days of running in such shoes. So I've learned I need to avoid them.
I miss the days of readily-available low- to moderate-stack, semi-flexible (no plate) and firm cushioning. I really enjoyed the Boston 9 and earlier. I've been going through the Terrex Speed Ultra which is basically a (pre-10) Boston with some very mild tread (really not too much different than what many road shoes like the Pegasus have, but with better rubber being Continental). I'll use it for pretty much everything not on a track or a road race (I will use flats for those); Most all daily runs, longer runs, uptempo work down to around mile repeats (which are only around 6:00 flat pace for this master's runner), and of course any trails and XC courses.
I know it's marketed as a trail shoe but it's really a nice substitute if you miss the older Bostons. Not identical but close enough. I can find them on sale for under $90 at times, often $40-60 on their eBay outlet.
Seems like Adidas is discontinuing this shoe. I’ve got one pair with around 100 miles and a new in box pair stashed in the closet. if I can find the men’s on sale again I’ll probably pick up another few pairs. if not I may have to try some other trail options for (trail) racing. The VJ spark has my interest.
in the meantime for the road I am around 100 miles into trying out a pair of the Brooks Hyperion to save miles on my Adidas. The stack is a bit higher that I like but I do like the foam and ride pretty well. They’re not too soft all (I can’t stand high stack squish in the forefoot) with a bit of pop. Brooks “speed” insoles suck though - like thin cardboard or poster board. Just throw some thin ortholite or something in there that forms to my foot a bit better please. not quite a race flat but an okay option given today’s range to choose from.
(just discovered this thread) I haven't been racing much, but had been doing weekly 40-50 mile runs. Only realizing recently myself that Saucony (my go to shoes, TypeA) had been discontinued. (as I was trying to get replacement shoes). I didn't like Fastwitch as much, but body adapted to it well, and even that seems like it's gone. I tried to experience with spikeless track shoes, Kilkenny XC9 Flat, 1) with number of general miles / surface / pace, legs just can't take the abuse + long recovery 2) shoe (upper) falls apart in a month. I might want to try Sinister, but it is just too expensive for my taste. Convergence on paper looks okay, but generally too much shoe / little ground feel for me. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
I also have used the A9s as my go to, but have used the Sinister as well. I try to wait for them to go on sale, which they have periodically, and pick up a couple pairs at a time. Am currently trying the Kilkenny, but, you're right, they are not an everyday shoe.
I only thing I can suggest is discontinued shoes on ebay or poshmark. If you like the a9, see if someone is selling pairs on those sites.
Yeah. I had bought a few standby pairs of Type A (whatever version, honestly they all have same solid ride, just slight different upper material / newer ones tear faster), female size equivalents of my size, but I can see stock for them are coming to an end. Fastwitch is more popular shoe, and there's no stock for them at all in my size. I tried kinvara years ago and found it too much shoe; pretty sure the new versions now offer an even more comfortable ride. I can hang on to existing stock of shoes for another 6 - 12 months, but will absolutely need to find alternatives after that. Thanks.
I also have used the A9s as my go to, but have used the Sinister as well. I try to wait for them to go on sale, which they have periodically, and pick up a couple pairs at a time. Am currently trying the Kilkenny, but, you're right, they are not an everyday shoe.
how many miles (roughly) you get out of Sinister? I can put 600+ miles on TypeA's before I am forced to rotate them out (shoes still mostly perfect and great for casual runs, just something about them start giving me weird aches with more intense / longer runs, likely the soles). Thanks.
I only thing I can suggest is discontinued shoes on ebay or poshmark. If you like the a9, see if someone is selling pairs on those sites.
Yeah. I had bought a few standby pairs of Type A (whatever version, honestly they all have same solid ride, just slight different upper material / newer ones tear faster), female size equivalents of my size, but I can see stock for them are coming to an end. Fastwitch is more popular shoe, and there's no stock for them at all in my size. I tried kinvara years ago and found it too much shoe; pretty sure the new versions now offer an even more comfortable ride. I can hang on to existing stock of shoes for another 6 - 12 months, but will absolutely need to find alternatives after that. Thanks.
Ya, hopefully someone sees there is a market for flats. I don't know of any shoes hitting the US market in the next year with stack height lower than high 20s (in mms).
I also have used the A9s as my go to, but have used the Sinister as well. I try to wait for them to go on sale, which they have periodically, and pick up a couple pairs at a time. Am currently trying the Kilkenny, but, you're right, they are not an everyday shoe.
how many miles (roughly) you get out of Sinister? I can put 600+ miles on TypeA's before I am forced to rotate them out (shoes still mostly perfect and great for casual runs, just something about them start giving me weird aches with more intense / longer runs, likely the soles). Thanks.
I'm not that guy, but I got around 400 miles out of my first pair. I could still run in them, but the traction is gone and I'm frequently running on wet/icy slick roads.
Topo ST-5 is a huge improvement on the 4 and a great low stack shoe coming in at 15mm with a wider toebox than flats with similar stack heights.
If I could run in a shoe with a stack that low, I wouldn't have a problem at all. I'd just get Japanese mizuno flats. The fli-lyte seems like it might be tolerable. I really don't like roomy toe boxes or a lot of toe splay which is probably why I need flats in the first place.
I also have used the A9s as my go to, but have used the Sinister as well. I try to wait for them to go on sale, which they have periodically, and pick up a couple pairs at a time. Am currently trying the Kilkenny, but, you're right, they are not an everyday shoe.
I have and sometimes still do use the Killkenny as an everyday shoe but I suspect even a lot of minimalist type people would find it too lacking in cushion to do so. If that's the case with you maybe you could put something like a Spenco insole in them and see how that goes. And just tossing this out with no basis in experience, Hoka has a cross country racing flat. I've only seen pictures, I've never actually felt one, but it looks beefier than the Kilkenny, as you'd kind of expect from Hoka. Maybe it's worth a look.
I have and sometimes still do use the Killkenny as an everyday shoe but I suspect even a lot of minimalist type people would find it too lacking in cushion to do so. If that's the case with you maybe you could put something like a Spenco insole in them and see how that goes. And just tossing this out with no basis in experience, Hoka has a cross country racing flat. I've only seen pictures, I've never actually felt one, but it looks beefier than the Kilkenny, as you'd kind of expect from Hoka. Maybe it's worth a look.
Yeah thanks for suggestion. I tried Hoka all styles the other day. Absolutely no go. I get almost no ground feel. Also tried old school New Balance, better ground feel, but too much shoe / closer to Kinvara I guess. (getting older, I want the ground feel / feed back to sense any issues as soon as possible, but too old to endure the daily punishment of Killkenny at the pace / distance / surface I am on.)
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