We know Coe is 3rd at 800m. We know Coe wins at 1500m. The $1 Million Question is who wins at 1000m? Now Coe has a chance. It is an almost impossible call now.
Well we just saw that Korir couldn't get near Wightman (or 10 others) in the 1000m at Zurich. Kipketer and Rudisha wouldn't get within 1 second of 81 Coe over 1000m.
Championship format with heat and semi-final versus a cool European night with rabbit(s)? Championship format, E. Korir wins 1000m versus Wightman. Championship format, Kipketer & Rudisha defeat S. Coe, 1000m. Look at S. Coe in championship format races from 1978. S. Coe lead 1978 European Championship 800m and split 49.xx 400m. S. COE NEVER SPLIT 400M SUB-51 SECONDS AGAIN IN AN 800M CHAMPIONSHIP FORMAT RACE. In a championship format 1000m race sans rabbit(s), first 500m wouldn't be fast enough to prevent Kipketer & Rudisha from being in the race last 100m.
Coe had one of the best kicks of any md runner. If he is in front in the home straight, neither can get past him. They have to be in front and with a significant lead. In his 1981 form he wouldn't let them. He could stay with both.
Show me evidence of this in an 800m race. If your best example is barely beating (.11) the immortal Tom McKean in a European Champs, I don't think you've cracked the code.
First of all, why would Coe be in front in the home straight? The other two are very comfortable blasting out the first 200 in sub-24 and front-running. Second of all, Rudisha's kick in 2011 and 2015 blowing away others in the last 100 looks pretty darn good. Kipketer in 1995 not too shabby despite running a ton extra. These guys can finish plenty darn well when that is the style of race they want to run.
Yes, Coe's kick in the 1500 was proven to be lethal. But the 800?
Coe had one of the best kicks of any md runner. If he is in front in the home straight, neither can get past him. They have to be in front and with a significant lead. In his 1981 form he wouldn't let them. He could stay with both.
Show me evidence of this in an 800m race. If your best example is barely beating (.11) the immortal Tom McKean in a European Champs, I don't think you've cracked the code.
First of all, why would Coe be in front in the home straight? The other two are very comfortable blasting out the first 200 in sub-24 and front-running. Second of all, Rudisha's kick in 2011 and 2015 blowing away others in the last 100 looks pretty darn good. Kipketer in 1995 not too shabby despite running a ton extra. These guys can finish plenty darn well when that is the style of race they want to run.
Yes, Coe's kick in the 1500 was proven to be lethal. But the 800?
Funny how your pretence at objectivity goes out the window when your Kenyan heros are questioned.
Do you remember that Coe out kicked Cram as well as McKean? That's the same Steve Cram who only weeks earlier ran one of the most impressive 800m races in history, and who destroyed Cruz the year before.
McKean was a fine runner, would be considered a great if he had had more luck in global Championships. He certainly outkicked prime Ereng here. BTW, I only disrespect athletes when they are dopers or likely dopers.
Tom McKean and Paul Ereng competing over 800m at the GB v. Kenya match at Crystal Palace, London in 1989.Commentators - Alan Parry and Steve Ovett.ITV Cover...
Funny how your pretence at objectivity goes out the window when your Kenyan heros are questioned.
Do you remember that Coe out kicked Cram as well as McKean? That's the same Steve Cram who only weeks earlier ran one of the most impressive 800m races in history, and who destroyed Cruz the year before.
McKean was a fine runner, would be considered a great if he had had more luck in global Championships. He certainly outkicked prime Ereng here. BTW, I only disrespect athletes when they are dopers or likely dopers.
I mean it goes to show Cram had an off race in that he crushed McKean at the '86 Commonwealth Games with a 25.1-second last 200. Then he tried the same thing at Europeans (with worse execution in not getting the inside lane) and could only muster ~25.4 in a slower race (by 1.4 seconds) and lost to McKean...
As for McKean, yes a fine runner who I don't mean to disrespect but is not in the class of the greats. Nor is Ereng, but for what it's worth they raced each other 6 times in 1989 and you've conveniently picked the one race which McKean won and Ereng got 2nd. Ereng won the other 5 and McKean had 2 runner-ups, 2 third places and a 5th place in those races.
I would like you to pick out what was not objective from anything that I've wrote.
Funny how your pretence at objectivity goes out the window when your Kenyan heros are questioned.
Do you remember that Coe out kicked Cram as well as McKean? That's the same Steve Cram who only weeks earlier ran one of the most impressive 800m races in history, and who destroyed Cruz the year before.
McKean was a fine runner, would be considered a great if he had had more luck in global Championships. He certainly outkicked prime Ereng here. BTW, I only disrespect athletes when they are dopers or likely dopers.
I mean it goes to show Cram had an off race in that he crushed McKean at the '86 Commonwealth Games with a 25.1-second last 200. Then he tried the same thing at Europeans (with worse execution in not getting the inside lane) and could only muster ~25.4 in a slower race (by 1.4 seconds) and lost to McKean...
As for McKean, yes a fine runner who I don't mean to disrespect but is not in the class of the greats. Nor is Ereng, but for what it's worth they raced each other 6 times in 1989 and you've conveniently picked the one race which McKean won and Ereng got 2nd. Ereng won the other 5 and McKean had 2 runner-ups, 2 third places and a 5th place in those races.
I would like you to pick out what was not objective from anything that I've wrote.
S. Cram doesn't belong in an all-time great 800m discussion. He knew his 400m speed ... . S. Cram didn't have the gusto to race 800m at Olympics or W.C. We sometimes see elite swimmers set personal best in Olympic & W.C. swimming semi-final. S. Cram would have had to do similar just to make an 800m final.
We're talking about Coe 81. Coe unfortunately had a short prime at 800 (79-81), and had one global championships in those 3 years, which he blew due to nerves. In a WR paced race with these two in it, he would likely have no problems tucking himself in behind Rudisha or both of them.. If he's still with them in the last 100m, he outkicks them both in the home straight.
This is where your white worship is blinding you. You say Coe is superior at 1500m. The evidence tends to back you up there. You also seem to say Coe is faster at 400m so he can outkick them. IF he is faster at 400m AND 1500m why is he slower at 800m? You make no sense due to your white worship.
He is "slower" because he was running 30 years before Cruz and 15 before Kipketer. So let's compare Coe's best with runners 30 years before him. An argument based on times without context is ridiculous - as yours are.
1. Kipketer (22 times) 2. David Rudisha (15 times) 3. Nijel AMOS (7 times) 4. J. Cruz (5 times)
5. Johnny GRAY (4 times)
6. Wilfred BUNGEI (3 times)
You fail to take into account that Coe and Cruz were competing decades before Rudisha, and 15 years before Kipketer. This is as ridiculous as comparing Coe with Snell and Ryun and Tom Courtenay on their times alone and not factoring they were in different eras.
This is where your white worship is blinding you. You say Coe is superior at 1500m. The evidence tends to back you up there. You also seem to say Coe is faster at 400m so he can outkick them. IF he is faster at 400m AND 1500m why is he slower at 800m? You make no sense due to your white worship.
He is "slower" because he was running 30 years before Cruz and 15 before Kipketer. So let's compare Coe's best with runners 30 years before him. An argument based on times without context is ridiculous - as yours are.
You are not very bright. If you were smart enough to follow my argument, then the 30 year separation makes no difference. Are you really that stupid?
Surely you understand that IF Coe was faster at 400 AND 1500 than DR and WK, it wouldn’t matter if they were separated by a generation. One would still expect Coe to be faster at 800 IF the preceding were true. Surely you can grasp this?
The idea that Coe was tactically bad at 800m only comes from Moscow, where he had the capability to have won comfortably.
His defeat by Ovett and Beyer in the Europeans was down to an excessively fast first lap, but one done deliberately with an eye to the future.
He was never again in the same shape as the Moscow era for any other 800m final.
If Rudisha goes from the gun - or has a pacemaker that takes him on somewhere around his first lap in London - 'tactics' aren't coming into it.
If Coe is going to have latest shoes, fast track, like London and can stay close enough to Rudisha and Kipketer on the first lap, you have to believe he would have run faster than his world-record.
There wouldn't be any 'kicking' off the kind of pace Rudisha would take them through 600m, it's just going to be a question of who slows up least, or at least whether Rudisha slows enough to let the other two close enough.
Purest speculation, but I think it's close, with Rudisha just holding on from Coe and Kipketer virtually dead-heating (despite Rudisha conceding drafting advantage to the other two).
The idea that Coe was tactically bad at 800m only comes from Moscow, where he had the capability to have won comfortably.
His defeat by Ovett and Beyer in the Europeans was down to an excessively fast first lap, but one done deliberately with an eye to the future.
He was never again in the same shape as the Moscow era for any other 800m final.
If Rudisha goes from the gun - or has a pacemaker that takes him on somewhere around his first lap in London - 'tactics' aren't coming into it.
If Coe is going to have latest shoes, fast track, like London and can stay close enough to Rudisha and Kipketer on the first lap, you have to believe he would have run faster than his world-record.
There wouldn't be any 'kicking' off the kind of pace Rudisha would take them through 600m, it's just going to be a question of who slows up least, or at least whether Rudisha slows enough to let the other two close enough.
Purest speculation, but I think it's close, with Rudisha just holding on from Coe and Kipketer virtually dead-heating (despite Rudisha conceding drafting advantage to the other two).
As far as I know, in the 1980s EVA was already widely used for spikes and the shoe tech hadn't really changed much since then, at least for spikes. I might give you the fast track though.
Btw, a case for Kipketer: he once split a low 23 (!) and low 48 on his way to a 1:41. Had he run off a more sensible pacing, it's not inconceivable that he might have run faster, perhaps much faster than his PR indicates. Though I still think DR will still prevail in the hypothetical race. And it would just be the race between those two.
[/quote] Coe never wins wrote: If they run this race 10 times, David wins 7 times, Wilson wins 3, Coe wins none. If they run on 10 consecutive days, still no wins for Coe. Coe couldn’t beat his contemporaries. Coe wasn’t best 800m runner of his era, just the record holder. Lost 1980 Olympics. Lost 1982 Olympics. Lost 1984 Olympics. Coe was a one hit wonder and most likely wouldn’t medal if you added other people to the race. [/quote]
The problem is where we did see the best of Coe? at Firenze? it's there where he do his best times.
I have seen all the critical races of Coe, I never got the feeling of a powerful freak runner of the 800m. Sorry to disappoint you, but the reality is not the dreams.
When I see someone like Marco Arop (or Athing for women) I can surely say this the runner type for this distance.
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