Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
boy wonder Pete Julian here. r
Dude's like 50.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
boy wonder Pete Julian here. r
Dude's like 50.
ex-runner wrote:
What are you supposed to do when the US qualification schedule dictates that you must run the trials to do the Olympics?
He doesn't have much choice but to run. Can always rest from now until Tokyo and hope for the best.
What is your point? I'm not condemning him for running - in fact I think it's amazing he was able to even make the final. He had 2 choices - if I was him I would have done the same.
Regarding Julian I'm pointing to the fact that he had Brazier running through a foot injury last year and in almost 10 months since that they weren't able to manage it as such that he was healthy for the most important time in his career. It's about that simple.
Trollminator wrote:
gretchen weiners wrote:
Speaking from experience from running and racing on an unconfirmed at the time sacral stress fracture, you can typically run one good race on it. Adrenaline is a powerful painkiller and I raced an a10k PR without pain and then barely got through the cool down and ran another time trial a week later and knew something was really wrong when the pain didn't go away. I'm guessing if Pete and Donovan knew he had a stress fx, they were probably hedging their bets to make the team and then cross train like absolute crazy to get on the line at Tokyo.
Good points.
Another explanation - he really couldn't get his head in the game and got obliterated, so it made more sense for his reputation, team and sponsor to come up with an excuse. That's what I would recommend. I'm seeing so much resistance to this idea but I don't get why it doesn't sound plausible to people. He was certainly not visibly injured, no limp and no grimace. He just couldn't summon the hurt, period. It can happen to anyone, it's just that his stellar blow up after all the hype and fast running seems impossible.
The couple of meets that they scratched from this season after Brazier was entered - were those also because he could not "get his head in the game"?
Further, I do not agree that he was not visibly injured. It seemed very clear to me that he wasn't running with his normal gait.
"Couldn't summon the hurt" is laughably sophomoric.
The way Brazier tightened up that final stretch clearly looked like something physically was wrong. We’ll see if anything more official comes out but totally makes sense that he’s battling an injury
I rewatched it a few times. He lost it when Murphy pulled next to him. With all of these guys being young and Miller and others right behind, Brazier will never be handed anything. This will really mess with his head.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
jda9ball wrote:
There is a big difference between stress reaction & stress fracture - two completely different phases. The one thing you are right about - we don't know. This is all speculation how bad it is.
I'm basing what I said off the fact that he has zero limp (stress reaction NOT fracture), & that he took off after Jewett with 350 to go instead of waiting back.
You are also correct that his tactics for the first 400 were great. He blew his wad between 400-600 for no reason & had zero left on a blistering hot day. He even admitted that in the press conference afterwards & also admitted that he didn't have a plan and that he ran a stupid race.
Your comment reeks of someone who clearly did not listen to what he said afterwards.
This makes NO sense.
"He blew his wad between 400-600 for no reason & had zero left on a blistering hot day". You saw the race right? Jewett ran away from him from 400 to 600. He didn't come from last at the bell in 51.5 and drop a 24.5 rounding the field in lane 2 mate - that's blowing your wad.
He was right behind the guy he should have been behind but was clearly laboring. And yeah when it's 94 and you need to be fully focused and you are probably pushing through the pain of a stress fracture you are on the edge of capitulation. That's not an issue with tactics or doing anything stupid - that's health.
I did listen to what he said - a few times. What I heard was a guy wanting to be extremely humble and respectful and not make any excuses. He could easily have got up there and said my foot is basically broken and that's what caused all this (which would have been right) - instead he chose a different path of accepting full responsibility - saying he ran a stupid race and didn't have a plan is just a move of minor self-deprecation that is implying "no excuses from my end". If you don't have the EQ to understand that then again, this conversation is a waste of time. If you really think a guy that is the reigning world champ didn't have any idea or plan on how to win his national trials then more fool you. Furthermore he didn't exhibit any signs of "not knowing what to do" because he was right where he should have been at 400,500 and 600 meters.
A little bit of intelligence and reading between the lines my friend. Not everything we say as human is in a literal sense. "The more you know". Yeah, okay.
It would be minor self-deprecation if he had a serious foot injury and he said his foot hurt. "Saying he ran a stupid race and didn't have a plan" is not self-deprecation if he really had an injury.
Heady guy wrote:
Are you all too young to remember Holman or Webb or Favor? All 3 could run a world leading time one week and then get 8th in a high stress race a week later.
Well you just may correct. After reading this article.
https://nypost.com/2021/06/22/donavan-braziers-olympic-dream-ends-with-one-s-ty-race/migroc wrote:
He also looked like he was limping down the homestretch. But he was walking fine after the race.
I believe the stress fracture story.
I actually thought he limped on and off after the race. On the track and later walking with Harris. I have an injury like that. I can cover it up but only if I am focused on doing so when walking. Left foot? Seemed like something odd was up. He’s not a guy who likes excuses.
oldoldrunner wrote:
Well you just may correct. After reading this article.
What?
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
This makes NO sense.
I did listen to what he said - a few times. What I heard was a guy wanting to be extremely humble and respectful and not make any excuses. He could easily have got up there and said my foot is basically broken and that's what caused all this (which would have been right) - instead he chose a different path of accepting full responsibility - saying he ran a stupid race and didn't have a plan is just a move of minor self-deprecation that is implying "no excuses from my end". If you don't have the EQ to understand that then again, this conversation is a waste of time. If you really think a guy that is the reigning world champ didn't have any idea or plan on how to win his national trials then more fool you. Furthermore he didn't exhibit any signs of "not knowing what to do" because he was right where he should have been at 400,500 and 600 meters.
This explanation makes the most sense to me too. Like others, I'm re-watching the race, trying to determine if his loss of form at the end was injury or fatigue. Hell, he may be sick and didn't wish to complain. Maybe he's "overtrained". It happens and you feel like you are dying. And if he's been depressed, it will take the wind out of your sails, we all know that too.
This has got to be more than just a bad day at the office.
Fada tyme wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
He did not lose this race because of a foot injury, at least not directly, he lost it because he ran a dumb race and could not handle the pace set by Jewett through 600 in the 95 degree heat. Honestly, at the end he had the look of our hs runners at the end of a hard race, not the look of a world champion. Whether or not an injury this year drastically impacted his prep and led to this disaster, that is certainly plausible. He may be too cool to say this and may be asking others to keep it to themselves. This is the sort of information best released after he wins the next WC or the gold in Paris.
Complete bs.
Could you repeat that...and louder for those in the back??? Absolute hogwash to blame the loss on Brazier's tactics. The reason he was passed at 180m in the first place was the injury. The dude grimaced the entire last 250m.
DrGator wrote:
Fada tyme wrote:
Complete bs.
Could you repeat that...and louder for those in the back??? Absolute hogwash to blame the loss on Brazier's tactics. The reason he was passed at 180m in the first place was the injury. The dude grimaced the entire last 250m.
Total BS. He simply had a bad race, period. The running site that over analysis everything. Kinda like Alan Webb when he got passed and passed and passed. He lost it and it looks a hell of a lot better to be last and make people, like the gumbos on this board, try to come up with their incredible logic (insert major sarcasm).
If his form changed, it was because he was wiping tears from his eyes.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
L.O.A. wrote:
Unless you have proof this is a waste of a front page thread. Speculation only.
Yeah - completely implausible that the world champion basically hobbled across the line last in the Olympic trials final and had an injury that affected him.
You are making far too much sense for this forum crowd that prefers the famous (and easy) “sad case” diagnosis, PhD doctors of watching track that they all are. Maybe we can’t be sure, you have insider awareness. But they are sure. Wrong forum for sanity usually. Anyway, I saw the limp long before I read your post, live as he walked away from the race, covering for it (it came and went, making me unsure at first).
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
Aouita 84 wrote:
I will however disagree with you on blaming PJ, and it seems you have an issue with him.
I have absolutely no issue with Pete Julian. But if you think he has zero culpability here you are mistaken. That's really about it, end of discussion.
Hmmm... sounds like you're backtracking a bit. Your post was judgmental and accusatory of his coaching ability. If you read my post correctly, I don't believe I ever stated PJ had zero culpability. I do believe I stated that an elite athlete and coach relationship is a partnership, where both have equal say in training, racing, etc... Pete didn't "make" DB run and or force him to "train through" injury. I can assure you that both had to make hard decisions as to what he could do in light of his injury. DB ultimately made the decision to race, not Pete. This is the Olympic trials, you're the defending world champion and are a favorite to win the gold medal, not many options here. As someone had posted earlier, both Pete and DB were simply trying to get through the trials with a top 3 finish and then train as much as possible before the games.
Now the discussion has ended.
Have we considered that maybe he had a borderline injury AND ran a bad race? Why can it only be one or the other?
Bad race...it happens wrote:
Total BS. He simply had a bad race, period. The running site that over analysis everything. Kinda like Alan Webb when he got passed and passed and passed. He lost it and it looks a hell of a lot better to be last and make people, like the gumbos on this board, try to come up with their incredible logic (insert major sarcasm).
Is something not functioning in your brain? Dude, I was told by an extremely credible source, at the meet it was the foot issue. I'm not making this up you unconscionable tw@t . Believe it or not every poster here is some pimple-faced high school kid or some flamed out wanna-be never-was runner. Some people who post here do work in the running industry. They do work with and know people that have knowledge the average punter doesn't.
Let me repeat. I was told by a credible source this was the case with Brazier. And now looking back at the race, his after-race comments etc etc, it fits with what I was told.
There is no "analysis". There is no need to generate "incredible logic". If you aren't here to take on board actually reporting of sorts of guys like Brazier why don't you just f--- off?
Aouita 84 wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
I have absolutely no issue with Pete Julian. But if you think he has zero culpability here you are mistaken. That's really about it, end of discussion.
Hmmm... sounds like you're backtracking a bit. Your post was judgmental and accusatory of his coaching ability. If you read my post correctly, I don't believe I ever stated PJ had zero culpability. I do believe I stated that an elite athlete and coach relationship is a partnership, where both have equal say in training, racing, etc... Pete didn't "make" DB run and or force him to "train through" injury. I can assure you that both had to make hard decisions as to what he could do in light of his injury. DB ultimately made the decision to race, not Pete. This is the Olympic trials, you're the defending world champion and are a favorite to win the gold medal, not many options here. As someone had posted earlier, both Pete and DB were simply trying to get through the trials with a top 3 finish and then train as much as possible before the games.
Now the discussion has ended.
I have absolutely no issue with Pete Julian. But if you think he has zero culpability here you are mistaken. That's really about it, end of discussion
Exactly... this isn't the first time he's choked in a high stakes race. I'd say it's more mental than any perceived injury.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
What are you supposed to do when the US qualification schedule dictates that you must run the trials to do the Olympics?
He doesn't have much choice but to run. Can always rest from now until Tokyo and hope for the best.
What is your point? I'm not condemning him for running - in fact I think it's amazing he was able to even make the final. He had 2 choices - if I was him I would have done the same.
Regarding Julian I'm pointing to the fact that he had Brazier running through a foot injury last year and in almost 10 months since that they weren't able to manage it as such that he was healthy for the most important time in his career. It's about that simple.
especially with (almost) no races in 2020 it wouldve made much more sense to let things heal completely