deena needed help

CLINT WAS NOT A PACER IN THE RACE. Clint was responsible for clearing out anyone that got in the way of a fair race for the womens leader. Deena was never mentioned in Clint's contract. If Dita was the leader the same action would have taken place. Clint was hired by the race and has no connection whatsoever with Deena. Now Deena did have her own pacer and training partner that paced her for the first 20 miles. In addition Kim Gilliard (who was not hired by the race) paced Colleen Deruck every step of the way. The men that were responsible for escorting were specifically told to not run in front of the women as it would screw up camera shots. Clints constantly looking back was to assure that no men were going to be clipping the lead womens heals. This became more of a factor as Deena started to fade as men were closing much quicker than she was. The only words that Clint shared with Deena was whether or not a MALE was getting close so that she would be more careful of not getting clipped. If Clint had anything to do with the pace he would have made sure that Deena went out at about 1:10:15-1:10:30 as this would have been a far more efficent manor of breaking 2:20.

Deena is incredible. I don't think this detracts from her performance one bit. She broke no rules and ran her ass off.

man seriously who gives a f...!!! She still ran the race...not like she got a car ride or something....she did it...It ain't her fault no girl in the world can run with her at her marathon pace...why the hell would it matter if there was a pacer or not....there are pacers for track all the time...it doesn't matter, it still counts as an american record or whatever record were to fall on the track. Doesn't matter if she had instructions...Frank Shorter can give you advice to run a sub 2:15 marathon...but following up on it is something else. If she wasn't capable of running that fast ...then she wouldn't, regardless of what advice is given to her.

We could argue until hoarse & blue in the face whether pacing helps, what constitutes pacing, what's too much help etc. but I'm not interested in that debate (as so many here are). I've said elsewhere, I'm opposed to the rules allowing pacing at all. If it were up to me, pacing would be illegal in the sport. To a degree, it's ruined a basic competitive tenet; the outcome will be decided by those matching their skills against each other minus outside influence. Many paced races are time trials...w/in the rules, yes, but they're minus the intrigue, suspense & surprises of head-to-head competition.

And, as I said earlier, I don't begrudge anybody that's been asked/compensated for pacing as what they're doing is somehow w/in the muddy rules.

"Clints constantly looking back was to assure that no men were going to be clipping the lead womens heals."

1. I'm going to have to call BS on that!

2. I'd also like to ask those that didn't watch the race on TV- at what point did Deena pass Clint and the other Hansons in making her move to drop Dita? Did I miss something there?

3. I've run one ugly marathon and I would have loved for someone to run next to me to help me in as I died like a pig the last few miles. Hell yes I would have run faster had someone been running with me.

3.1. If pacing isn't relative to Deena's victory, then why are most races led by rabbits? Fast times? Yes, because it is EASIER TO FOLLOW! Is that wrong? That was the point of this thread.

Deena spent more time following than running next to Clint prior to the last mile. Period. Did it help Deena win? In my slow-ass opinion, yes. Would Deena still have won anyway? We will never know, which is the depressing part of today's race. I would have loved to see her win alone.

I agree with you. The most important thing to remember is that Clint Verran was NOT hired to be a rabbit. And this is not just a matter of creative semantics. Men were hired to assure no outside interferences. PERIOD.

On the scene wrote:

The most important thing to remember is that Clint Verran was NOT hired to be a rabbit.

You are so lost.

briar rabbit wrote:

"Clints constantly looking back was to assure that no men were going to be clipping the lead womens heals."

1. I'm going to have to call BS on that!

.

You can call whatever you want. I know that you are wrong. Talk to Clint or Deena and ask them what happened. Although you would still feel like there was a conspiracy.

Lost in neverland wrote:

On the scene wrote:

The most important thing to remember is that Clint Verran was NOT hired to be a rabbit.

You are so lost.

Did you read the contract?

After reading this whole riduculous thread, I now understand why distance running will never be a mainstream sport.

Deena ran her ass off.

Shame on wejo and the other naysayers here who've muddied the win.

Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!

I still would like to see footage...It is a bit ironic that the folks hired to make sure there was no outside interferences have potentially created their own interference in the form of splits and/or information regarding other runners...my hats off to deena either way, but I bet it would have been a bit more compelling if she were out on her own trying to hold onto her shrinking lead...

yeah, there was no "intrigue, suspense & surprises" in chicago today. i don't even know why they ran they race because it was a fait accompli before the gun even went off. i also wasn't aware that marathons are "head-to-head." i think you have watched the mj/db 300m match race one too many times on your vcr. if you were god, how would you make pacing "illegal?" someone has to be in the lead so somebody has to be following. it seems like you would have to dq the whole field if pacing were made "illegal."

on the fence wrote:

I still would like to see footage...It is a bit ironic that the folks hired to make sure there was no outside interferences have potentially created their own interference in the form of splits and/or information regarding other runners...my hats off to deena either way, but I bet it would have been a bit more compelling if she were out on her own trying to hold onto her shrinking lead...

I wouldn't be on the fence if you believe what you wrote. I would say that it was wrong. However, your facts are wrong. Clint never gave a split or relayed any info on any of Deena's competitors. I dare anyone to produce an audio tape that proves me wrong. People are assuming what they think Clint said. They are wrong.

great statement by Scotth. i don't care if it was Clint/Deena or Brown/Radfcliffe or Limo/Ndereba or whomever. its not personal, its about pacing.

to say that clint "coached" her is quite a stretch! i was at the race and managed to see the two runners on numerous occasions on the course, i think that this accusation has gone too far. so what if he said a few words to her. if you were running next to an elite athlete trying to hit a record and you were capable of staying w/the runner, wouldn't you give a few words of encouragement?? deena is an extremely dedicated runner as well as a great example of sportmanship. her facial expressions are worth a thousand words...during that race, she was focus on one thing--herself!! she wasn't worrying about runners by her side, even if they were there by her side most of the race. if clint was really pacing her, she would have had him shelter her from the wind those last two miles. but no, she was committed to her race only, and if she was going to break the record, it was going to be on her own terms. i think this accusation is largely based on the male population of runners who just can't appreciate the strong character and determination of elite women runners who are closing the gap between genders. i don't want to stand on my feminist pedestal, but enough is enough. applaud deena for her well-run race, don't tarnish it w/ unjustified rumors!!!

I didn't claim to have any 'facts'. I did say I would like to see footage and that clint POTENTIALLY created interference. I didn't assume anything, and am not going to try to find some watergate audio tape to prove you wrong.

What, then, did Clint say? Enlighten us...

I think Deena should file a grievance against Dita given that her pacer Chad Johson, is at least a couple of inches taller than Clint. She had the benefit of 20 miles of increased wind blockage. That Pinkowski is a real bastard.

This arguement is ridiculous.

OH MAN. wrote:

She still ran the race...not like she got a car ride or something....

I'm fairly sure that everyone chiming in here is well aware that Deena didn't hitch a ride in a car or sit on Verran's shoulders. Please alert your fellow idiots and slippery-slopeheads that discussions of potentially unfair assistance are not limited to such extreme examples. If the reason for this eludes you, consider the matter of why race organizers spend big bucks on organic pace-setters in the first place.

is