This is kind of similar to what i'm doing now but it's mashing some workouts in the same day through doubles. With my mileage level i don't need doubles. But thanks anyway!
This is kind of similar to what i'm doing now but it's mashing some workouts in the same day through doubles. With my mileage level i don't need doubles. But thanks anyway!
Something is off here. You ask for a plan with rigid parameters, people give their input (progressive/adaptive training, add more races, suggestions that you post each week), and you shoot just about every suggestion down. You'll just do what you already know, and then you'll hit some nearly impossible goal based on the experience of a novice runner?
Also, the not giving updates kinda feels like a way to disappear when things don't work, or to just swoop in at the end and say you achieved something all while remaining anonymous.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
The 7aji wrote:
Throughout the course of this thread, it became clear I wasn't going to get a plan from here. Yes, initially that's what i wanted but things took a turn. Looks like i'm gonna have to do it on my own. I have stayed in shape after my last race, it's not like I stopped running. I've never taken more than 6 days off since i started running last year and haven't gone more than 2 weeks without at least some high intensity work in the form of intervals or tempos etc.
I am confident that i can achieve this goal in December and i appreciated the support that i got from this thread.
You are really too much of a troll!!! ))
"Throughout the course of this threadit became clear I wasn`t going to get a plan from here."
Some guys told you the only coach that could help you come Close to your goal on low mileage was the expert of low mileage training. And you turned it down by Calling my coaching BS. As I said,,,,,you are really too much !!
JS stop trying to be a bully. No one cares. You are a fraud, and anyone on LR for a decent period of time knows it. Since this guy humbly turned you down, you attach him.
You just can't stand it.
Get over it.
You ruined Phil.
Your methods are stolen from others, but tweaked in such a way as to NOT work.
siehst wrote:
Something is off here. You ask for a plan with rigid parameters, people give their input (progressive/adaptive training, add more races, suggestions that you post each week), and you shoot just about every suggestion down. You'll just do what you already know, and then you'll hit some nearly impossible goal based on the experience of a novice runner?
Also, the not giving updates kinda feels like a way to disappear when things don't work, or to just swoop in at the end and say you achieved something all while remaining anonymous.
Not really, I am getting what i want from this thread. Yes there are suggestions i don't think fit me but there are stuff that i am taking into account from suggestions that i never personally thought of. But as of yet, there has been no post that i absolutely agree with or at least don't have enough information to build a plan from and that's completely fine.
For example earlier in the thread, someone suggested i focus on a HM time trial over the summer before jumping into a marathon plan. Prior to this, i was considering staying at base until mid august. But the risk of me starting flat would br high. The HM plan thus would allow me to peak twice this year instead of once which arguably is better and "safer" in a sense.
So yeah on the contrary i do appreciate the advice i'm getting and continue to welcome more if anyone has any, i could use it i could not, but it's nevertheless appreciated!
I am Sam wrote:
The 7aji wrote:
Can anyone help me formulate a plan to make this happen?
Why not just train and keep improving? What is it with a random goal based off an HM of 1:21?
1:21 at best gives you 2:50 with the requisite training, so you are not a potential 'elite'.
From personal experience, I ran 1:20 off very little (less than 60km/wk), progressed fast to 2:46 of about 60km/wk (3:10, 2:57, 2:46), in same year before the age of 21
I ran sub 2:30 about 5 yrs later, off about 100-110km/wk
You need to do the work.
You need be able to easily run sub 16 , 5km, just on a whim. You need to PB down in low 15's.
You need to race shorter distances often, you need a racing 'brain', so that when you stand at the start line you know exactly how its going to pan out.
Most of it is not rocket science.
But rather than seek out some magic formula, just train more, race more and improve
Interesting. I'd like to hear more about your training leading to your sub 2:30 on this kind of low mileage.
Here's my progress :
35 years old male
May 2018: 1:19:40 half (55 mpw peak)
October 2018: 2:56:30 first marathon (78 mpw peak / 62 mpw average / 16 weeks)
May 2019: 2:44:59 (82 mpw peak / 65 mpw average / 16 weeks)
October 2019: 2:36:04 (100 mpw peak base phase / 95 mpw peak specific build / 81 mpw average / 20 weeks including base.
I was hoping to run sub 2:30 in Boston in April but I busted my peroneal tendon in January. I'm slowly rebuilding my base to start a specific 12-week program for Boston in September (I know it won't happen).
I would be interested in a lower mileage marathon program.
Do you have any logs of your training?
Thanks!
I ran 6 marathons between 2:33 and 2:48 in the mid 1980's. My mileage was essentially capped at around 50 miles/week because I was a West Point cadet. My half marathon PR was slightly under 1:11. To me, it seems like a bit of a stretch to be targeting 2:30 if your current half PR is 1:20 as even completing a full marathon at your half pace is an accomplishment. If you are targeting a full marathon at 2:30 pace you are going to need a fair amount of faster running in your training which (from the information provided) you don't seem to be doing yet. 1000M to 1600M repeats are helpful and tempo runs at or close to 6 minute/mile pace. Running 2:30 means you need to be able to run efficiently at around 5:45 minutes/mile pace
Go for it OP - just create our own log, make a fun thread title, and update us all - be nice, thoughtful and you'll end up with a cohort of LR posters who will provide solid advice and encouragement
The 7aji wrote:
Now i want to run my first marathon at CIM in december (if it happens) and i want to run it on no more than a peak week of 65 miles and an average of 60ish. The goal is to run the marathon between 2:30-2:34 with a 5:45 race pace to set my sites on in training.
This would seem to be right in Coach JS's wheelhouse, man.
The 7aji wrote:
My PR in the Half Marathon is 1:21. I ran a 1:25 HM, 8 weeks before that. First cycle was with a peak of 42 mpw and the second cycle was with a peak of 48 mpw. Both were run in october and december of last year respectively.
I started running early last year with zero background.
I've never run a 400 faster than 1:15 but i can evenly split 400s for a 5:01 mile PR so i'm guessing i would be much better at the 400 had i specifically trained for it.
For both of those, i did it off running 5 times a week in singles with 1 long run and 1 pyramid interval day every week. The long run is replaced with a tempo run every other week.
I've since started running 6 days a week and included tempo runs as a third weekly workout. I've replaced tempo runs briefly, the last 5 weeks with sprint intervals to build raw speed and i intend to go back to tempos when done.
Now i want to run my first marathon at CIM in december (if it happens) and i want to run it on no more than a peak week of 65 miles and an average of 60ish. The goal is to run the marathon between 2:30-2:34 with a 5:45 race pace to set my sites on in training.
Save the "its impossible your your too slow", "it's too early don't burn yourself out", "you can't PR in the half during the marathon", "that mileage is too low" quotes. I've heard it all before. I think it will be very difficult but not at all impossible.
Please no crazy sarcastic interval workouts to show its impossible. I'm really serious about this goal.
Can anyone help me formulate a plan to make this happen?
I would estimate, that by your half time, you would not be breaking 2:35. that's just me.
runnerchef wrote:
Go for it OP - just create our own log, make a fun thread title, and update us all - be nice, thoughtful and you'll end up with a cohort of LR posters who will provide solid advice and encouragement
That's what I was saying earlier!!
You gotta keep us updated OP, that way we can see how you're doing and honestly, a lot of people will want to see you succeed. Those kinds of threads is LRC at its best: Such as when Phil tried to OTQ, even though it didn't work out, he got a lot of encouragement.
bestes@emerson.comwrote:
I ran 6 marathons between 2:33 and 2:48 in the mid 1980's. My mileage was essentially capped at around 50 miles/week because I was a West Point cadet. My half marathon PR was slightly under 1:11. To me, it seems like a bit of a stretch to be targeting 2:30 if your current half PR is 1:20 as even completing a full marathon at your half pace is an accomplishment. If you are targeting a full marathon at 2:30 pace you are going to need a fair amount of faster running in your training which (from the information provided) you don't seem to be doing yet. 1000M to 1600M repeats are helpful and tempo runs at or close to 6 minute/mile pace. Running 2:30 means you need to be able to run efficiently at around 5:45 minutes/mile pace
Ya i'm writing up my summer half marathon plan and i'm thinking that i'd start with the 400-1600 pyramids for the first 5 weeks on the weekly interval day and for the latter 5 weeks they would be 800-1600 with a fair bit of 1k repeats. Starting the plan next week I will have come fresh off of a 5-6 week raw speed development plan with a weekly hill sprint day and weekly flat sprint day.
For the full marathon plan the goal is to repeat 400-1600 pyramids for the first 4 weeks, transition to 800-1600 for the second 4 weeks, and for the last 8 weeks i would be doing alternating weeks of 800s and mile repeats. These would be solely on one workout day. The other workout day is the tempo/MP run that I did in the past before the apocalypse, extending distance weekly and a weekly long run that fluctuates but peaks at 23 miles before the taper. I still have time for the marathon plan though. I'm currently finalizing the half marathon plan. If anyone has any suggestions for that let me know now!!
Rhodium Nights wrote:
runnerchef wrote:
Go for it OP - just create our own log, make a fun thread title, and update us all - be nice, thoughtful and you'll end up with a cohort of LR posters who will provide solid advice and encouragement
That's what I was saying earlier!!
You gotta keep us updated OP, that way we can see how you're doing and honestly, a lot of people will want to see you succeed. Those kinds of threads is LRC at its best: Such as when Phil tried to OTQ, even though it didn't work out, he got a lot of encouragement.
I will! I will! And i'm not creating a new thread. I'll post my updates on here but like i said biweekly or monthly we'll see.
You're smoking crack. You'll run 2:55 if you have a downhill course with the wind at your back. "Time constraints" = lazy and not dedicated. Sure some college runner who can jog 2:45 can train on 60 miles a week, but if 1:21 is your best half, no way you break 2:55 on that low miles.
If you want to get faster, sleep less, get up earlier and put in the miles. It's called an alarm clock. Based on your 1:21, you'd need to up it to 80 miles a week minimum to get to 2:30 and that is 80 miles a week over the span of several months, not once in your life cracking 80.
Excited to follow your progression. Good luck.
Even if you fail miserably, you should end up with a big ol’ PR on your hands, assuming you recognize lack of fitness at the beginning of the race and don’t hit 1:15 at halfway.
What if this race doesn't happen? I ask again because boston was just cancelled. THE boston marathon. So by extension all the majors will follow after berlin too. Is there harm in peaking and not racing? I don't want my first marathon to be a time trial. Should i just taper and do nothing in september? What do you guys think?
*december
I'm glad you guys suggested i do a half marathon plan instead of lingering in base phase before a marathon. After the boston cancellation, i don't know what will happen with the rest of 2020.
With the time trial i get to go through a cycle and get in some quality and conditioning. By the time i TT in August, we'll know whether CIM will happen, if it does i can just jump into marathon specific work.
I just finalized my 10 week HM plan with paces set for a 1:10 time. I allowed a buffer to 1:13 though and would still count that as a success because i'll be time trialing in August where it's significsntly hotter than the marathon in December. If I go over 1:13 i'll have to adjust my goal
It's been a little over a week since i started my half marathon plan set for August 9. I already skipped my first day on friday which doesn't bode well. My body was warning me about my left glute medius so i took my friday tempo off. It was 2 miles at tempo sandwiched between a warmup and a cooldown so i didn't miss much.
Heat is really starting to ramp up, the summer is a terrible time to have a training cycle but i guess when the going gets tough...
I did my interval workout as usual last week, it was fine, but i was getting perfectly even splits despite straining some reps and relaxing in others, which really kind of confirms my thoughts about GPS reliability. I'll go back to recording lap splits when i'm back on a track hopefully by next month.
Regarding the weekly HM pace runs i know i won't hit my splits, i'm always running in the morning because the streets aren't well lit at night. I know tempos are supposed to be by feel, but i never have run by feel, i just can't, it never works i know its detrimental in the long term but using splits and setting a pace always worked for me, it keeps me sane. Now my hands are tied and i need to get out of my comfort zone mentally in order to complete these tempos on hilly terrain which I won't be racing in come August 9 which is just crazy but it's the reality of my situation. My easy runs have become slightly slower recently, could be the heat, could be my new heavy adidas solar glides, could be long term running on asphalt roads with no change in terrain in 3+ months. Heck it could be a combination of all of the above for all i know. There's just so many novel variables at play that i can never confirm what is making me stale or if i have even gone stale at all. My long run on sunday was fun and relaxing despite the weather, took a couple of vids and pics along the way. I just hope that all this is going to pay off when i time trial even though it will still be really hot in early august. It's what happens at CIM that will ultimately matter. The worst is yet to come as the heat intensifies in august. God help me.
I expect my next update would be next month but if i have something interesting to mention i'll post earlier
I don't mean to be rude but I believe that the updates that people are hoping for are your actual training weeks... e.g.
M - 10 miles at 7:15 pace
T - 3 mile w/u, 5 mile tempo run at avg. 5:25 pace, 2 mile c/d
etc...
Yes please provide more splits, less excuses.