Well in fairness I think this thread is more about calling out an obvious liar...which has been a tried and true part of LRC forever. We don't take kindly to illegitimate results and cheaters.
I can't speak for others but I definitely have no desire to EVER be a big lifter like Ryan Hall is now. Good for him I guess as long as he has a hobby!
Sit and kick wrote:
My high school had ~150 people on the cross country team and was in the top classification in sports (largest schools). Most teams in this class had at least one runner with a PR well under 17:00. The state champ for boys typically ran 15:00-15:30 range. These times were on XC courses (we didn't have 5k in track). However, having a whole varsity team that regularly ran ~16:30 would have put you in real strong contention at the state meet unless your #1 was relatively slow. That kind of depth even in the top class was pretty unusual.
I'm curious on how this compares to others experiences in high school.
Sounds like you just described hall Hs and the Connecticut high school scene
The message nowadays is that you can get somewhat jacked whilst running some pretty decent amateur times and moderate mileage. It seems to have caught on.
10-15 years ago, despite Chinese Olympic weightlifters jogging a couple of miles per day without being hindered by the interference effect whilst dominating medal tables, 18 year old boys who just wanted to look good for prom were being told a few miles per day of running would turn them into a catabolic mess.
The pendulum has swung to a point in which ‘conditioning’ is in vogue again.
If you can run a sub 5 minute mile whilst putting up some half decent numbers and looking like Captain America then why not?
That’s all well and good, but at a certain point specificity is a reality.
But is that ‘certain point’ a factor for 99% of non specialist athletes, not least hobbyists?
That type of improvement is possible:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9380269
BUT it requires a true baseline of no distance, and being in otherwise good shape.
That’s pretty fast though, beats mine by 2 mins!
BTW I read that he treadmilled. So did I, and I paid dearly. Only now am I doing sprint drills again, I had a major knee issue thanks to the mill, and I wanted to avoid surgery.
So in my mind, injury after something like this would add to his cred.
But it IS possible, thanks to an absolute crap baseline.
Man I Just got banned from r/fitness for making a civil, constructive comment. I feel like the mods have a lot to lose if nSuns gets exposed since so many people follow and worship his training plan
Sorry mate, I’m not really seeing the comparison. You were significantly lighter to start with, coming off a better base, and after 7 months you weren’t within 3 minutes of what he basically achieved in 4. In fact, he was faster at 210lbs and 2 months of proper training.
What was the comment?
It’s making me question the credibility (and intelligence) of their little cabal in general. The ‘just_another_scrub’ fella seems to be obsessed with getting the cool kids to like him on fitness circle jerk. The poor kid’s post history is tragic.
The thing getting lost in all this is not that he ran these times on the treadmill. I think m while treadmills are going to be a little forgiving given the lack of air resistance, they are still somewhere near the realm of what is possible outdoors.
However, this guy is uploading data from his gps watch for running that he did on a treadmill using the indoor running function on his watch. That feature is hilariously inaccurate to the point that the data is worthless. This guy probably has no idea how inaccurate it is, and probably legitimately thinks he ran a 16:30 5k in the middle of a 6 mile run but as soon as he tries to replicate it outdoors he’ll be lucky to break 19 minutes.
Yeah but I’m only 5’10”, and probably way older.
I was just giving one possible explanation for the magnitude of improvement, though.
But also—if he hasn’t been a LR poster, that shows he really doesn’t care, and severely lowers his cred, IMO.
I hadn’t read that he did it on a mill.
Doesn’t count. Only solo on a track counts—however, I was actually faster on a track than on a mill...which leads me to believe that the mill was calibrated improperly, a possibility once again lowering his cred.
That’s been pointed out, but he’s also done at least some running on an indoor track - that’d be enough to realise something’s off, surely?
I just questioned his 10K and Half PR since they were performed on the same day but obviously weren’t the same run since one was significantly faster than the other. Also mentioned that he should race a 5K and post the result once lockdown lifts are eased up. Got banned within minutes of commenting lmao
Why is it so hard to believe. I'm pretty much talentless, but I still went from 28-ish 5k to 19 ish (in the heat) after 6 months of training, and 18 months later sub-35 in the 10k. Hell, this dude can deadlift 6-plates, so he clearly has legit athleticism. 16-minute 5k is some good HS time but not that big a deal that it's out of reach for anyone to get there after some serious training.
He claims to do long runs often on an indoor track, so it's hard to think that he wouldn't know that he wasn't capable of these times. 15 miles on an indoor track? Yeah right.
Also the treadmill had to have some distance and pace read out. It would be hard to ignore the discrepancy between the two. And the 4:55 mile? I have to imagine a 190lb guy running sub 5 on a treadmill would break the thing.
I'd pay good money to see him, Alex Viada, and Matt London duke it out in a lifting/running duathlon.
No a snowball's chance wrote:
Let's be real here- for the average person 16:34 is incredibly special. The percentage of people who can run that time right now in the US is probably less than 3%.
*.03% come on bro, 3% of males in US could break 17 right now? Give me a break.
Sledge_Hammer wrote:
Why is it so hard to believe. I'm pretty much talentless, but I still went from 28-ish 5k to 19 ish (in the heat) after 6 months of training, and 18 months later sub-35 in the 10k.
TLDR: Read it anyway. Although my post is in reply to Sledge_Hammer, this is a general challenge to all who want to explain that the dude's progress is reasonable. My point is, anyone can explain one thing, but no one can explain everything. There are too many individual, unrelated anomalies to explain away. So don't bother explaining just one thing...anyone can do that. Explain this all! I will no longer accept excuses for nsuns that do not consider all the information below.
Your progression is very, very good. Something that others might dream of.
I decided to compare your trajectories, just to show you how absurd the redditor's claims are. I plugged your race times into Jack Daniels' VDOT tables, to compare the efforts at different distances. This is my magnum opus.
Your progress: Very admirable, and achievable
* Your original 5k 28 flat: 33 VDOT
* Then you train for 6 months, avg ___ mpw (I didn't wanna guess)
* Your improved 5k, 19 flat: 53 VDOT
THIS is the timeframe the redditor is working in. You trained for 18 more months and achieved a 10k performance that is STILL not as impressive as this guy's claimed 5k (that effort's VDOT is 62, this race is 61).
Redditor's progress: Just unrealistic no matter how you look at the data he has shared
* Started running late March 2019, can barely run a mile. 11 minutes. Corresponds to a Daniels 33-34 VDOT at easy pace.
* April-October: claims to run 5mpw until deciding to train seriously.
* These numbers are from a screenshot of the redditor's runkeeper log:
- Avg pace of runs has increased to ~8:00/mile, in line with the redditor's other claims.
- November 2019: ~7 mpw
- December 2019-January 2020: 15-20 mpw
- February-April 2020: 30-40 mpw
...
Everything up until this point, I don't think he's fabricated a thing. Why wouldn't he get a little better at running with consistency, at least to the point he isn't shuffling on his easy runs? I buy it, at least on principle.
And then this is where I think the redditor starts faking data. After this point, the PRs start rolling in and claims start to be made. But now, instead of RunKeeper, all his runs are logged in Garmin Connect. That's the source of his mile splits, his PRs, everything that he shows as his "after" picture. Check it out.
...
* April 19: 5k PR, a 62 VDOT performance
Not to mention he must have run it sub-maximally because he continued to run another 6:21 mile, completing a 39:37 10k with his 5k PR within it.
* 1 week later: 10k PR of 38:07, a 55 VDOT performance.
That's within a run where he sets his half-marathon PR of 1:26:24, a 53/54 VDOT performance. Pretty cool to be so versatile, and so soon. He loves setting PRs on submaximal efforts. Who knows what he is REALLY capable of...
* A couple weeks later, sets a mile PR of 4:55, a 60/61 performance.
For someone with such a background in lifting, and such a limited background in aerobic training, I sure would have expected the mile to be a better event for the strong guy! But his 5k was better, and just to flex, he ran negative splits and paced it very evenly, according to his Garmin Connect screenshot. It's amazing that he not only has a natural aerobic base with no training, but also a natural ability to pace a 5k run perfectly!
You went from a VDOT of 33 VDOT performance to a 53 VDOT performance, over 6 months with consistent training.
This redditor claims to have reached a 62 VDOT performance, without clearing ~15 mpw until 2 months before his PR. That, along with everything else I've written, is impossible to ignore.
That's all I have for now!
The common retort by defenders has been to point out how established he is, and ask why a guy with years of filmed lifts would take to lying about his running.
The benefit of a doubt is tough to give with everything you - and others - have covered. He either did it, or he’s lying.
This was a great read! Thank you to those who are now banned from the subreddit, ha!
I am talented by most people's standards--I broke 15 in the 5K in college. I am in my 30s now and started running consistently about a year ago. My 2020 mileage seems similar in intensity--about 5 per day average. I went from about 17:25 to 16:45 in 2020. It wasn't easy, so I do take the redditor's claim seriously. (Btw, my GPS said 4:48 pace (3.5mi) for my track 16:45 5K, so is that a PR??) I occasionally do 5Ks on treadmills and tracks for fun and to get a VDOT. I can run about 25-40s faster on a treadmill (various gym ones). So, I'd be happy to race this big guy in person anytime.
I could be misremembering, but isn't 1 VDOT per month close to the theoretical gain for proper training? He gained about ((62-34)/4.5)= 6.2 VDOTs per month (for several months)?? Obvious early progress comes easy, but IMO, it's not easy being under 17, even with talent. The progress doesn't seem remotely possible. Glad he gave us the 6:22 cooldown for the lols. No effing way, bro.