50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Coyote Montane wrote:

Started a trend! But it's also good to look back and what went right or not so right for us.

With dozens of usually short-lived "comebacks" since high school, I became addicted to the rapid and dramatic improvement that comes during the initial weeks and months of training.

My enthusiasm wanes as the progress slows or plateaus. And now, closing in on age 60, even with perfect health and training, the races will inevitably be slower and slower. Negative progress. Continued enthusiasm becomes very challenging.

If I start running again, I will stay focused on AG percentages and age-group placing.

Meanwhile, I will once again see REAL improvement as I start from scratch. That will be fun.

Anyway, my lesson learned this past year is that enthusiasm in seeing that rapid improvement, and feeling indestructible, inspired me to increase intensity AND volume too quickly. I should have been more patient, and included strength training from the beginning.

Still, it was enjoyable and gratifying to go from just basic fitness (3:25 marathon) to top age-group honors at some major local races. I can hold onto those memories as I crawl up the stairs on all fours -- which I tend to do these days ...

Greetings. 52 year old former D1 distance runner here. Haven’t trained much since related calf heart attacks a decade ago.

Would like to find a program that helps me lose weight, stay fit and pick up some speed to be middle of pack in local 5k-15k.

I haven’t proven resilient in previous attempts. I was thinking something like Wardlaws Complex Training? Maybe Hudson Masters schedule? Obviously with the calf I need to be careful with speed.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Started a trend! But it's also good to look back and what went right or not so right for us.

The thing that has gone not so right for me is turning 58 next May! Can't stop that though...

My free fall has been well documented here so there's no need to rehash again. So what's the cause of going from chasing 16:00 to chasing 18:00 in 6 years? Age, nagging pains, not training properly, lack of strength and flexiblity probably all contribute to my downfall. Sure it's hard to accept racing 5ks at my HM/tempo pace from just a few years ago. Can I ever get it back? Who knows... My head always says yes but my body says no most days. All we can do is all we can do.

Dave

OldMan88 wrote:

Greetings. 52 year old former D1 distance runner here. Haven’t trained much since related calf heart attacks a decade ago.

Would like to find a program that helps me lose weight, stay fit and pick up some speed to be middle of pack in local 5k-15k.

I haven’t proven resilient in previous attempts. I was thinking something like Wardlaws Complex Training? Maybe Hudson Masters schedule? Obviously with the calf I need to be careful with speed.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Take your time

Think in terms of cross training

Have fun with it

Forget about your former self wipe the slate clean start

Embrace your chronic injuries learn as much as you can about them so you can minimize them

Good luck!

I would have to flip through the last 16 years of logs (not to brag, just that I have been fortunate enough to run and race every year since turning 50, so won't do that or my wife will find something else for me to do :). Anyhow, the below is a reflection of mine, but please don't consider this bragging, just reflecting on what's worked for me.

But I will say that what has freed up my running SOMEWHAT is; 1) living in the KC area, so that I have access to races, good medical rehab, good competition, etc., 2) having a wife that runs competitively, and so gets my juices flowing, 3) being involved with running as a volunteer at races and with state records keeper (my anal side with numbers), 4) working in Cardiac Rehab, which kept me motivated to keep my health AND fitness, 5) age-grading, to some degree (I am only a 70%'er at best) and 5 year age groups with a local Grand Prix series tie-in, and 6) annual physicals with a very recent calcium-scoring of my coronary arterties showing a score of only 75, which meant very hardened plaque on my arteries. This score really gave me some relief (my Dad had coronary bypass surgery before age 60) and freedom to run long if I wanted, to run fast if I wanted, and not worry about "pushing myself too hard" (plus my knees feel fine). That reassurance of my physical health from healthcare professionals means a lot to me.

Not saying that all you folks can do all the same, but finding what inspires you, lifts you, brings joy and hope and all the rest can't hurt.

Oh, I do believe that, when I got injured, my cross-training on bike, elliptical, etc. helped me find my running fitness more easily, Also by doing weights twice weekly and thus maintaining upper body strength helped burn some calories and so helped keep off extra pounds that can be a real disincentive to wanting to return to running and racing.

And to those moving into a new age group soon, (CM, amkelley, etc.), welcome to the "next" best years of your lives!

Whoops, I meant that a calcium score of 75 meant very LITTLE hardened plaque of my arteries, big Whoops by me!

Me likes this M50+ Game...

2010 50 18:18 5k, 4:41 Mile, 4:27 1500m, 2:06 800m,

2011 51 x5k, 5:01 Mile Indoor, 4:21 1500m, 2:06 800m, PF-Surgery-Rehab

2012 52 17:58 5k, 4:30 1500m, 2:08 800m

2013 53 17:58 5k, 4:55 Mile, 4:34 1500m, 2:09 800m

2014 54 Ankle Surgery, x1500, x800, 5:07 Mile, 18:09 5k Turkey-Trot end of year

2015 55 18:27 5k XC, 4:34 1500m, 2:11 800m

2016 56 19:15 5k Shawsville Time-Trial, 5:07 Mile, 4:50 1500m Indoor, 2:15 800m

2017 57 18: 5:10 Mile, 4:47 1500m, 2:17 800m

2018 58 Goals = Reap Rewards From '17/'18 XC Aerobic Tank Building, USATF Medal Stand 1500/800m

For me it is ezr to see my "progress" over time in terms of AGP all rounded up for goodness sake!

age -- best age graded percent -- trng

43 -- 89 -- 40 mpw 5 mile tempo 2 mile vo2 skinny

46 -- 85 -- 60 mpw lmd with 6 weeks of speed work skinny

49 -- 87 -- 20 mpw zero slow xtrn bike plus lt and vo2 skinny

56 -- 80 -- 20 mpw mostly tempo 15 pounds overweight

60 -- 80 -- 30 minutes a week 2 runs mainly vo2max some tempo and hiking 20 pounds overweight

AG... That's a cool way to look at it too Charlie.

Could also be fun to pick one's most consistent, or favorite, event for all masters years, starting at age 40 or older, with each year's best performance, then a calculation of +/- %. I would probably choose the 1500m or the classic mile (with converted 1500 times). They won't all trend negative... and I doubt anyone could show more than 5 years in a row of consistency.

As Kelley already stated... he/she would has too much time on their hands could play. And/or any of us OCDs (Obsessive Compulsive Dedicated).

KP

Hey KP

AGPs do clarify things.

Best Event(s) over the years based upon age grading

Yeah maybe even 800/1500/mile is your hunting ground.

Mine is really limited to the 1500/mile anything longer or shorter is out of my very narrow Goldilocks zone.

Time on hands

Started the retirement process back in March moved to Florence in Aug. Now I have more time on my hands than most guys serving life. But that may change they are hiring at Freddy's;) What has been a pleasant surprise is just how much enjoyment and good health I am getting out of my current approach to running .

What the data tells me

Lose the lard.

Cross train with intensity

Train fast a couple days a week no need for easy miles at least not for the 1500/mile

KP wrote:

Me likes this M50+ Game...

2017 57 18: 5:10 Mile, 4:47 1500m, 2:17 800m

This data is entertaining, interesting and informative.

KP, you seem to be about 10 years better than I am. At age 47 I ran a 5:03 mile, 4:48 1500m, and 2:16 800m. I also ran a 26.7 200m (which surprised and pleased me) at my college alumni meet, which was my son's freshman year at the same school. I ran collegiately when my college was an NAIA school. My son ran when it was a DIII and DII school (he was the school's first DII all-American because XC was the first season of DII) and starting next year they will become a DI school.

i like this game too, except i can’t really play the 50+ game as a newly minted 50. coincidentally, steve magness writes about the greater value of new year’s reflections versus new year’s goals or resolutions (in a nutshell, it allows us to be more process-oriented instead of the abstractions that goals can be); for us, it’s probably common sense to think this way because we easily have more to reflect on than look forward to :)

for my decade long reflection, i’ll choose one race, the carlsbad 5k, since my track forays are few and far between. i count myself fortunate to have been able to run the same race 10 years in a row, and 2017 was a mad scramble for fitness to make it happen. i will also use age-grading to get what i find an interesting perspective. hopefully my notes will help paint a fuller picture that masters of any age can find useful. i’ve never really counted miles, and i’ve never kept a log for any extended period (there hasn't been too many significant changes to my training in the last several years, but that will change), so take summaries/approximations/ruminations for what they’re worth...

2008: 15:38--87.74%

(running 40 miles/week--got my a$$ kicked by a 45 and 46 year old in my introduction to the masters race)

2009: 14:55--92.51%

(bumped mileage to around 60+mpw, with weekly track session/tempo run/long run)

2010: 14:40--94.77%

(seeing fruits of 2 years of solid, consistent, injury-free training)

2011: 15:04--92.92%

2012: 15:30--90.97%

(windy, not to mention having kevin castille over 30 seconds ahead of me)

2013: 15:40--90.74%

(uncharacteristically tactical road 5k, went out really slow)

2014: 15:35*--91.87%*

(this is a projected time that i think reasonably represents fitness--i was with the leaders before i limped last ½ mile with a calf cramp; top 3 went 15:19-15:25)

2015: 15:37--92.32%

(i remember being disappointed with this race--i was 4th, off the podium--but felt better when i saw the age-grading. maybe the first time i was comforted by age grading…)

2016: 15:11--95.72%

(although this was my proudest effort, i would not have guessed that this was my age-grading high water mark for this race--still don’t fully understand the math)

2017: 16:14--90.14%

(ending the decade with a bit of a whimper--2017 has proven to be the worst year of competitive running for me, with 3 months off before carlsbad, and 2 months off after carlsbad…).

while it would be easy to say there’s been a decline for me, and this year hasn’t convinced me otherwise, i’ve been lucky to have been around the pete magills, the sean wades, and the nat larsons who’ve shown me what can still be done after down years, or in nat’s case, steady improvement even after great consistency throughout his 50s. my age 48 race in 2016 showed me that even after 35 years of running, i can still surprise myself. and the frequent posters on this thread remind me that if it were easy, everyone would be doing it; but it isn’t, and everyone isn’t. it lets me know i can’t really b!tch about a sore achilles when i see what my peers have gone through or are going through, but it also forces me to reevaluate what i’m doing by understanding i can’t simply keep doing what i’ve always done. and i enjoy the camaraderie and commiseration of our small community to continually direct me as i age up…

stay healthy--and happy this new year--my friends,

cush

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Kudzu,

On biomechanics, David McHenry, Therapeutic Associates, Portland, Oregon. Oregon Project PT.

Igy

Thanks, Igy. I'm taking notes!

That's a decade great summary and resume Socal Cush. And Charlie & KP I also like your derivative approach. I don't have it all in front of me but season bests went from 84-85s in my early 50s to 87s to 88s in my mid to later years and even thong the scoring got harder with the 2015 wma calculations took it up a peg in 2016 and 2017. Scored 7 races at 89 or above this year. I attribute that to the healthier diet and dialing into a training system that seems to work for me. And even though I sort of miss it stepping away from skiing sort of helps my running economy, not spending 3 months of the year getting my legs back. Still a good supplement. Getting in 5 hrs of high alt ski training this week in addition to some 45 or 50 miles of running.

Ran my first ever mile race in December 1970...5:30 indoors at West Chester State College in Philadelphia

Age 40: 4:19 (1500)

Age 50: 4:56 roads/5:02 track

Age 60: 6:03 (2017)

My post age 50 decline has been more related to mechanical breakdowns...most notably my feet. Having trained to compete nearly every single day for 48 years probably hasn't helped.

Frankly, after 108,494 miles of continual pounding (I have always been a forefoot striker) the only reason that am still able to "train" is due to all the ancillary stuff: deep tissue body work weekly for more than three decades), self massage and manipulation particularly on the aforementioned mangled feet, a healthy diet that keeps my weight in the 140s (was low 130s while racing collegiate track and XC and lighter when racing 2:25-2:29 marathons), copious amounts of supplements (in addition to mega B vitamins lately use Hyaluronic Collagen, Tuneric, and high potency MSMG, nightly soak in hot bath with 3-5 lbs of Epsom salt which I rub in to every "owie", ice and ice baths on an as need basis, light weights and core fitness 5-6 days a week ( at a minimum, push ups and sit ups), NormaTech therapy after speedwork, ibuleve (a 10% ibuprofen topical solution I purchase from overseas), write the alphabet with both ankles every single morning before rising, and on and on.

As I was sure to express to Jonathan Beverly in the recent book in which KP and I were both interviewees , "Run Strong, Stay Hungry", I believe at this stage of the game (will turn 62 shortly) it's no longer as much about what we do DURING our training as it is about what we do BETWEEN training sessions...a consummate focus on the recovery phase is a must.

Inspired as I always am by this thread, am hoping to continue to train and race into my seventies. There are many ways to skin a cat...and I deeply appreciate all of our fellow posters who continually share their wisdom and insights.

Long may you run,

MF

Gonna Play Once More Via AG Featuring All My Masters Years In The 800m. I do like the 2-lapper!

40 2:01.32 87.6%

41 2:03.00 87.2%

42 2:04.20 87.2%

43 1:58.36 92.3%

44 1:59.24 92.51%

45 1:59.30 93.33% 1500 4:04.15 94.33%

46 2:00.23 93.41%

47 2:00.98 93.94%

48 2:04.04 92.13%

49 xxxxxx xxxxxx

50 xxxxxx xxxxxx

51 2:06.27 91.29%

52 2:08.61 90.44%

53 2:06.68 91.82%

54 2:09.02 91.66%

55 2:11.68 91.33%

56 2:15.22 89.70%

57 2:17.10 89.18%

Happy New Year Y'all!

KP

Not necessarily my best 5 km races of the year, but among the most competitive are the KC Corporate Challenge races. However, they are on 3 different courses and venues since 2001, and the last couple years have been more like 3.2 miles. Once or twice the track 1 mile has been a 1600m instead, but at least there's some consistency in these results

Age Year 5 km 1 mile

50 2001 19:55 6:08 (USATF certified course 5 km and took 3rd in age group by 3-4 seconds, 4th in mile)

51 2002 20:50 6:24

52 2003 22:25 6:48

53 recovery from meniscus surgery

54 2005 22:28 6:29

55 2006 23:57 6:38

several years of not being with a company that did KCCC

60 2011 23:32 6:57

61 2012 24:51 6:54 (and a hilly 1/2 marathon 2 weeks before the mile in 1:53:09 for 2nd in age group)

62 2013 23:31

63 2014 23:25 7:17 (hilly 1/2 marathon after the 5 km in 1:52:15 for 3rd in age group)

64 2015 24:26 7:19 (hilly 1/2 in 1:56:46)

65 2016 25:07 7:21 (hilly 1/2 in 2:02:12)

66 2017 25:03 7:33 (9.75 mile race in between, d/t flooded bike path, 1:22:03 for 3rd in age group)

After that first or second year of the 5 km, the courses were very difficult, but my aging still shows up. I am pleased with my occasional medals, as the KCCC brings out some tough local guys. They often don't like to run the 1/2 d/t the hills, however.

I like your times and consistency. I can relate to more of your ability then some of these really fast times posted by the elite 60+ runners (I was always under the impression that this site was mostly for master's elite runners).

Anyway, just wondering: Was your meniscus tear acute or a degenerative tear? Any further trouble with the knee or signs of arthritis developing?