50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

ssfletch wrote:

A question to the group: How many times a week do you complete a core or strength workout? IYO, Is this more important for masters runners than younger folk?

1. I do strength workouts six times a week. I divide most exercises into three groups, and do each of them twice a week, plus some basic exercises every day. Free weight and cable machines twice a week, and the rest is mostly "body weight" with med ball, Bosu ball, Swiss ball, etc.

2. I think it is more important for us than for younger folks. Pete Magill's book (Build Your Running Body) supports this idea. BTW, if you are not sure which exercise you should do, that book is a great place to start.

M: off.

T: swimming 1000m.

W: 4 miles.

R: off.

F: 5 miles.

SA: off.

SU: 6.2 miles.

Ideally, I should have done some cross training on Thursday and Saturday, but we don't live in an ideal world, and I had some work to catch up. Pfitzinger's book prescribes either cross training or rest on those days, so I think I could get away with not moving my body. Sunday's 10km was on a 400m track at junior high. My first km was 5:54, but I closed @ 4:52 without pushing hard . And I thought, "I shouldn't be this fresh eight days after my marathon." It shows you that I recover more quickly when I ran a crappy race. Now three more weeks of "recovery" program, and I will start my training block for the next race in January.

ssfletch wrote:

A question to the group: How many times a week do you complete a core or strength workout? IYO, Is this more important for masters runners than younger folk?

I do some basic strength exercises in the gym about 5 days a week. Upper body, core, and legs, working the legs in ways they don't get worked when running. I hate the gym but consider it important to work parts of the body that running and cycling don't. I am slightly built as it is and I feel my upper body would waste away into nothing if I didn't do some weight work.

I never set foot in a gym until age 39. I think I am stronger in the upper body than I was 20 years ago, although I've lost a tremendous amount of running speed since then.

erik wrote:

lucKY2b wrote:

Whew! They accidentally deleted the thread. Glad they got it restored!

Now let's hear those race reports.

Cheers!

Thanks for your patience. This thread has nearly 9000 posts so we wanted to make sure this got done correctly. I'm a part-time prof so this time of year gets a little busy for me with exams and grading.

Erik

It’s good to have the thread back! Thank you, Erik!

tough sledding (almost literally by the men's open race) in lexington. brutal conditions, but made for an adventure. funny part of the race for me--two years ago in san francisco i got out fast, a little worried about the large field, so fast that i was a good 20-30 meters ahead of kevin castille by the time we hit the polo fields maybe 400m in; i then settled in and resumed a more suitable pace and probably placed about where i should have been, with no harm done by the fast start. i thought i was doing something similar in lexington, but i had no awareness of the field because all eyes were on the horrible footing over the opening stretch. my perception of speed betrayed me, though, as we hit the initial downhill and i was completely closed out by huge packs of runners on both sides. obviously at 50 feeling fast and actually going fast are two different things now...

after getting buried by the field so quickly, i tried to dig my way out with absolutely no knowledge of where my main 50yo competitors were. i saw a couple of 50s backbibs in front of me, and tried to delude myself into thinking they were the only two in front of me, but knowing better. finishing the first loop, my wife (who ran the masters women's race before ours) yelled that there were four 50s in front of me, so i began to chase in earnest, passing one. unfortunately, halfway through that second loop i saw my wife again, and this time she yelled that there were five 50s in front of me! my poor math skills could not rationalize how i dropped a spot after passing someone in my AG...

though i count myself a reasonably tough runner, i have to admit i was more than a little psyched out at this point. however, i felt like i made a pretty tough charge during the last loop to somewhat redeem my momentary lapse in courage. in the end, i can't be too disappointed with my effort, though i'm a little disappointed in the result. i can take some consolation in just how tough the 50-59 age group--in fact, 1-9 in the age grading went to 50+ year olds...

i did get to see db in lexington, missed seeing kp--i met someone who said they were part of this thread (was it lucKY?), but was a little distracted and can't remember who they said they were.

every time i line up in an x-c race, especially one with conditions like this, i try to tell myself "never again," but then i remember the joys of running with teammates, of celebrating and commiserating with competitors, and by the night's end, i'm talking trash about how i'm going to whup 'em in the next one...

on to tallahassee,

cush

A belated XC Nats Greetings & Report from a guy way in the back....

Still Reelin' In The Years... of how tough, but great, that Lexington 10k was. Been 10 years since the Spokane Blizzard Club Nats. No wonder I didn't toe-the-line for a decade. It could have worse in KY. I believe we dodged a few bullets at Masterson Park last Saturday mornin'. Was 19F when the sun came up. By gun time the wind was chillin' but not at 15-20mph as called for. The frozen ground was better than the sticky clay we had the day before on the course run-through. BUT, damn that gofer-holed firm terrain made things really tough to run well over fell and dale. Cush said it best. All our heads were down to ensure our feet were stabilizing our older gaits.

My M50+ Bowerman Team was 7th... worst ever? Yes, on paper. But no way in that great deep field. Very impressive. And my hat is off to many of y'all who ran tough as nails. As for my performance y'all may be my only friendly audience when I say 26th in my AG ain't so bad. Or that I fared much better overall 40-59 in the Age-Grade Results. Or that only 8 people my age or older beat me. Or y'all may be just as fair in saying "KP... there ain't many folks alive (or as dumb) over the age of 57 to toe that damn tough-guy xc course.

It's funny. Every time I race XC 10k there's always at least one fellow competitor who supports my shout-out after the finish line to "Bring On The 2-Lapper Race On The Oval!" But after several delicious cloudy IPAs in a reunion of old friends i'm already more motivated to toe it again in FLA. Thank GOD it's only 8k!

Cush... that was me fist pumping your team before the gun went off.

Dave... was great bumping to you at West Sixth Street Brewing.

Francis... I barely remember seeing you at Ethereal.

LucKY2b... it was just too damn cold out there to gather up.

Happy Holidays to all y'all.

KP

Thanks for the shoutout Charlie & lucKY2b. Missed it the first time due to travel and thread disappearance. My post race report was rather brief because it was 6 in the morning and I was typing on my iPad. I'm still sort of processing it all, but had a wonderful weekend there. Got to hang out with my son and see some friends. Great to see reports from socal Cush and KP. I have to admit that I was hoping for even colder weather with some snow on the ground.

lucKY, yeah the shoulder injury and surgery were last year. And at this time last year I was up to 30-40 miles a week on the treadmill, and only sneaking outside unbeknownst to my doctor and PTs. I'm sort of retired from skiing for now. I get out once a week or so in January and February but the access isn't as good as it was in AK. I have to drive 60 to 90 minutes to get to the trails. That said, glad to be running and feeling well and looking forward to the next phase. One of the reasons I moved back to the lower 48 was to be able to run more through the year and to be able to travel to more races.

Re: Saturday, was feeling intimidated going in because I knew the field would be tough and some of those guys thrashed me in earlier outings at club XC (although then in different AGs)--still you're talking minutes. So to finish within seconds indicates that what I'm doing (altitude, diet, training cycle) is working for me.

Great to see the thread back. I did stop by db's team after the race but he wasn't around at that time.

Keep working guys and women, and hope to see you at future outings.

Well now that the thread has been restored, here's my well thought out, in depth, detailed race report....

"The beer was good."

No really. It was kind of a weird race. It seemed to go well but I could never get into racing gear. It almost seemed like I really didn't want to. I ran comfortably, never stressed, never hurt...there certainly was no suffering. It really didn't seem that cold and the hills weren't as bad as I told L2b they were the night before. Maybe everything would have been worse if I had run faster.

Anyhow, here's what my log says:

"Ok with my run. Always want to run faster and place higher but whatever. Maybe a little too comfortable of a day. Went out easily vowing not to ruin my race and suffer this time. Kept it steady and finished up feeling pretty good. Course surface was hard, filled with ruts....opted for flats at the last minute. Good choice! Didn't wear a watch. WC about 18deg, 28 deg, windy, 5 good hills but the cold or hills didn't seem to bother me. Team didn't do well. AG 82.3%/32:28.

Amazingly, or true to form, I placed 15th again in my AG in Lexington! 15th place in 2009, 2012 and now 2017!"

Without a watch I kind of lost track of where I was during the race. There were clocks all over the place but I wasn't sure if they were for our race, one of the other races, was the split a K or a mile... So honestly I had no idea of my pace. This was my 125th 10K road/XC race and it was the 123rd fastest. The 38:59 was 3rd from the bottom!!! Geeezzz....

Looking back at my mostly crappy Club XC runs over the past 10 years, I've now placed in my AG 22,14,15,4,15,4,15 in 7 races between 2007 & 2017. The 4th place finishes were from my first year in a new AG so I guess I'm looking forward to turning 60 in 2020 when I'll be the young guy on the block!

KP: Good running into you at West 6th. I'm kind of jealous you guys went to Ethereal. After W. 6th I went back to the hotel for a short nap and a shower. Then met up with L2b at the post race party. We walked over to Hopcat and had a few more while watching womens college volleyball at the bar! Then back to the party for a bit. It was mostly a younger crowd by then so we headed out and called it a night around 9:30. I think I was in bed by 10:00. Yep, I'm a party animal.

SCGal: Nice to meet you! Maybe I'll run into you again while we're in Greenville over Christmas.

So now it's time to use the winter to rebuild. I took a few days off but ran a couple miles tonite and did some lifting. The next race on my agenda is the Bayshore Half Marathon on May 26. Other than that I'll probably just jump in an occasional local race. I told my team I'm definitely out for Tallahassee and Spokane. Not sure how much of a team player I'll be next year. Traveling to these far away races just doesn't excite me anymore.

Yours in Running,

Dave

Hi luCKy2b,

Shoot me an email @

park106@gmail.com

and we'll meet up for a run.

Haven't posted myself in a while, but enjoy reading others' training and racing reports. I'm keeping up with 4 days/week ea running and riding, although dealing with a tight calf the past couple weeks. Did get in a nine miler today averaging 7 min pace, with last two at 6:10/6:12.

Racerdb, we were at Hopcat until about 9, then wandered over to a crazy party that was packed to the walls. Done by 10. We were probably sitting right next to you guys.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Racerdb, we were at Hopcat until about 9, then wandered over to a crazy party that was packed to the walls. Done by 10. We were probably sitting right next to you guys.

Were you watching women's volleyball at the bar?

Too bad we missed you. It's kind of hard looking for someone if you don't know what they look like!

Dave

Thanks for sharing, I do have MacGill's books and have been a follower for a while. Good stuff there. I do zero core/strength so looks like I need to up my game. I got away with it when younger, so an attitude adjustment is in order.

I hate hate hate the gym. Need to find alternatives but will start with a yoga mat and some outdoor space to complete some basic core stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Gyms are tough joints these days. Loaded with big body tough guys who act so territorial or the proverbial fitness Kings/Queens who sit on machines texting for minutes at a time. And I'm seeing a lot of testosterone use at some of these gyms with aggressive behavior from both the young & old. It's okay if you just use the cardio machines or aerobic/core areas, but if you venture out onto the weight room areas you can get pushed around by some of these big monsters, especially during peak hours.

I live in a generally poor and uneducated town, and my gym looks like the exercise yard at a co-ed prison. My husband and I are practically the only people there not covered with tattoos. But we've never had issues with the tattooed "big body tough guys" at our gym, who respect our right to use the equipment (even in the free-weight area) and otherwise mostly ignore us.

It probably helps that our gym is rarely seriously overcrowded and you generally don't have to wait too long to get on the equipment you want. The environment is not too appealing but I've gotten over it. I've come to treat it sort of like brushing my teeth--a boring task that needs to be done to maintain health.

Thanks, Igy. You seem to be seeing great results with your speedwork of late. I could have no better role model! And, yeah, that was part of my thinking in targeting the 5K for a year prior to tackling the BIG GOAL (3-hour marathon) in 2019: work on that aspect of fitness, keep mileage relatively low ... and stay healthy.

On the other hand, as a long-time low-mileage runner, never having had a big base may be my primary weakness. This year, despite my target races being the spring half marathon, and autumn full marathon, my best races (AG percentage) were a 5K and a 15K.

The 5K in April was my best Age-Graded effort of the year (82.2%), and I essentially trained through it. I was still sore from a 20-mile run earlier in the week. The marathon was only an AG 78.6 percent.

A 2:59 marathon at age 60 is an AG 83.4 percent, so I need to be looking at doing something VERY different from the past. Based on the AG calculator, that 2:59 is equivalent to an open 2:26 -- a daunting comparison for a guy with a 2:40 lifetime PR! But overall mileage is one component I have always neglected, despite best intentions otherwise.

Kevin, thanks for that input. Until I looked up a You-tube video, I didn't even know what an "elliptical" was! My local YMCA apparently has two of them; I may join, at least for the winter. I will soon be starting a multiple-month whole-house restoration project just two blocks away, so I should be able to schedule an hour a day at the Y. Maybe elliptical, treadmill, spinning, weights.

Rescue, that's a good thought. Gotta get over my fear of toeing the line when not quite feeling "race-ready." During early build-up phases, I usually don't have a problem with that, but my recent competitive efforts are still a little too fresh in my memory!

As of today, going on three months of no running, I can barely negotiate stairs, and still wake up in pain during the night. I haven't been proactive with the prescribed exercises, but it's still disconcerting that there has been so little improvement. Will have to see how things go once I start whole-body conditioning at the Y.

BTW, thanks to everyone who posted those great race reports! REALLY enjoyed reading them. I'm living vicariously, but better than not living at all!

old guy II wrote:

Allen 1959, my two cents on your plan as someone who worked on base but somewhat neglected speed the year before I turned 60, is that base is more important for any distance down to about 5K, but you really need to stay in touch with speed work as well, even if it is just strides a couple of days a week. My other piece of advice is that at age 60 running is no longer alone sufficient to get your best performance. You need to figure out and consistently do some kind of strength routine to supplement your running for both speed maintenance and injury prevention.

ogII, I also meant to thank you for your perspective. Your advice weighs heavily in my decision to get serious about incorporating a strength routine. I think I will be more successful with dedicated time at the YMCA, rather than trying to do exercises at home where there are so many other distractions.

My training for the first half of this year included 100-yard strides every week, but with the onset of injuries I had to abandon them. I surely hope that ability will return.

Allen1959,

I think your analysis is correct, but I would make a couple of additional points. You can grow your overall volume without specifically targeting the marathon. Also, you can continue to moderate your total volume, but maintain marathon type training modes of tempos and the traditional weekly long run. The second is my personal preference, since the time and energy to maintain marathon specific mileage is more than I care to, plus it comes with a cost. So, if I was targeting a similar plan I would spend the intervening months racing other distance. Then, six months out from my targeted race begin my marathon push.

Hope this helps.

Igy

Racerdb wrote:

Coyote Montane wrote:

Racerdb, we were at Hopcat until about 9, then wandered over to a crazy party that was packed to the walls. Done by 10. We were probably sitting right next to you guys.

Were you watching women's volleyball at the bar?

Too bad we missed you. It's kind of hard looking for someone if you don't know what they look like!

Dave

Yes they had the volleyball game going. We were sort of on the right side of the bar, facing the screens. Although there was one group of three or four to our right.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Racerdb wrote:

Were you watching women's volleyball at the bar?

Too bad we missed you. It's kind of hard looking for someone if you don't know what they look like!

Dave

Yes they had the volleyball game going. We were sort of on the right side of the bar, facing the screens. Although there was one group of three or four to our right.

Geezzzz, we were probably sitting right next to you! There were three of us.

Dave