George Floyd / Chauvin trial starts monday

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Why were the police not able to get GF to stay in the police car?

Do you think DC was trying to "render Floyd unconcious in order to remove any possible "threat"", or do you still think he just wanted to kill him?

I dont think you've have seen the 9'29" video of the end of Floyd's life. What was he doing to resist police during that time? Chauvin wasn't protecting himself - he was showing everybody his contempt for the human being under his knee and who had the power.

Of course I have!

The reason he was on the ground with three cops on him was because he resisted the simple task of getting in the back seat of the police vehicle. Then he thrashed around on the ground and NEEDED to be restrained by three police officers. They told him numerous time to relax and when did he do that?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

So you think the police should have just thrown a highly drugged up, handcuffed person on to the ground and let them thrash around until the ambulance arrived? Are senior colleagues always right? Who was the senior colleague of the four police officers?

He wasn't "thrashing around". Keep making sh*t up. The senior colleague was the police officer testifying, who is one of the most experienced officers in the Minneapolis department.

So when he was removed from the police car and placed on the ground did he lay there calmly?

You didn't answer my question about the senior colleague of the four police officers, why is that?

Asdsd wrote:

Yes foaming at the mouth which he was also doing the previous time he was arrested. One of the police this time also said his eyes were rapidly moving back and forth. The other passenger in the car, who Floyd's girlfriend said they had previously bought drugs from as said he was testify to the 5th if he is made to testify. The previous case of fliud being arrested would be devastating for the prosecution team and it is not to be allowed to be brought up in this case as it could demonstrate an operative modi.

6 medics interviewed said Floyd was not overdosing. Two autopsies have found death by homicide. Don't let that deflect you from your patent prejudices.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

He wasn't "thrashing around". Keep making sh*t up. The senior colleague was the police officer testifying, who is one of the most experienced officers in the Minneapolis department.

So when he was removed from the police car and placed on the ground did he lay there calmly?

You didn't answer my question about the senior colleague of the four police officers, why is that?

I just did. You are a complete moron.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Are you saying it isn't a fact that the ambulance went to the wrong location at first and then arrived late because of that?

Whether the ambulance went to the wrong location or not - I haven't seen anything suggesting that - it doesn't change what Chauvin chose to do. And that is what he is on trial for. For killing a man. I have seen nothing that says the ambulance ought to have arrived before then (in which case the medics would have had no more likely success than the bystanders in getting Chauvin to take his knee of Floyd's neck).

Chauvin can't blame the ambulance for him choosing to snuff Floyd's life out. But you will.

I'm sorry you missed another little fact about the ambulance delay.

You still haven't stated how you would have restrained GF, and there are no guarantees that had he been wrapped in foam padding if that would have any change in how he metabolized the drugs in his system.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

So when he was removed from the police car and placed on the ground did he lay there calmly?

You didn't answer my question about the senior colleague of the four police officers, why is that?

I just did. You are a complete moron.

Why must you always throw out childish names when backed into a corner and can't answer the simplest of questions?

The stench on this thread of white racism has become overwhelming. It is easy to see how police officers like Chauvin can feel justified in what they do. There is nothing that some of you won't say to defend what he did and blame the victim. It is all versions of how the uppity (black man) got what was coming to him. America has little changed.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I just did. You are a complete moron.

Why must you always throw out childish names when backed into a corner and can't answer the simplest of questions?

I answered your question. You should be embarrassed by it. You clearly don't understand what the term "senior colleague" means. I'm looking for a polite alternative to "moron" but there isn't one.

Floyd didn't need restraining. Creep. And that was the point of the senior official's evidence.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Muldoon wrote:

I'm not sure this helps the prosecution as much as many believe. It implies that the restraint was reasonable when initially used and for some time thereafter. I believe the prosecution has to argue that the knee restraint was always an unreasonable use of force, since they can't determine the moment Floyd died.

You are wrong. You haven't understood the evidence. The knee restraint wasn't justified once Floyd was unable to resist, handcuffed and on the ground. This was well before the moment he died.

You are wrong. You haven't understood the evidence. You haven't even understood what I posted.

The testimony of Ploeger was ""It would be reasonable to put a knee on someone's neck until they were not resisting anymore, but it should stop when they are no longer combative." So the prosecution witness has effectively barred the prosecution from arguing knee restraints are unreasonable per se. Ploeger says they are reasonable. He's also effectively barred them even arguing that knee restraint are unreasonable when applied to a handcuffed person since, as we see, handcuffed people can certainly be combative. In fact, Ploeger has probably damaged the prosecution's ability to argue that knee restraints are considered deadly - why would a restraint be considered "reasonable" if it was also likely to cause death? That's what firearms are for. So, like I said, this doesn't help the prosecution as much as people seem to believe (or want to believe).

It's worth noting that you are the idiot who once posted this glaring legal error - ""if Chauvin applying his knee to Floyd's death cannot be ruled out as a cause then he is guilty of homicide" - while at the same time pretending you are a legal expert just because you live in some other country that is a common law jurisdiction.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

I'm sorry you missed another little fact about the ambulance delay.

You still haven't stated how you would have restrained GF, and there are no guarantees that had he been wrapped in foam padding if that would have any change in how he metabolized the drugs in his system.

Floyd didn't need restraining. Creep. And that was the point of the senior official's evidence.

So the three cops got on him for fun? I'll ask this again, did GF lay on the ground calmly when removed from he back seat of the police car? Your senior official lost all credibility when he stated handcuffed individuals are a non-threat.

Armstronglivs wrote:

yawn wrote:

You mean the testimony of someone who doesn’t want to lose their job and who hasn’t been in the street in years supports the prosecution? This clown also said crowd size doesn’t matter. A crowd of 100 is definitely more intimidating then a crowd of 1. It doesn’t matter if you are arresting someone or juggling baseballs.

There was no crowd of 100 and they weren't threatening the police officers. As the senior official said, they are trained to deal with these things. As a senior officer he's had years of experience - that will add weight to his testimony.

You completely missed the point of my post. My point is crowd size for any situation matters. The Lieutenant looked foolish to say otherwise.

In this specific case, Donald Williams said under oath that he threatened to “ slap the f*** out of you” To the officers on scene. Seems pretty threatening to me.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

'Flopping around'? That's a threat? You guys are unbelievable. You have 4 policemen and a suspect handcuffed on the ground. "Hey, let's snuff his life out - he might start flopping around!"

yeah, a drugged up, handcuffed person falls to the ground and starts smashing his face in to the ground, do you think the police should just stand back and let him do that and make bets on how long it will be before he knocks himself out or dies from the OD?

If the only alternative is putting a knee on the neck for over 9 minutes, then yes., and if there is LOC and it looks like opiates, then narcan. Of course, your situation is a hypothetical, and not necessarily what would have happened

he absolutely would have died from the OD, because he did die from OD, not the MPD approved neck restraint. 9 minutes or 24 hours, it didn't kill him. chauvins knee pressure was so weak that at one point GF was able to lift his head off the ground.

peacefularson wrote:

he absolutely would have died from the OD, because he did die from OD, not the MPD approved neck restraint. 9 minutes or 24 hours, it didn't kill him. chauvins knee pressure was so weak that at one point GF was able to lift his head off the ground.

Yeah, I notice that as well that he was able to move freely with little resistance. I was hold by another police officer that it was called a safety hold.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

I'm sorry you missed another little fact about the ambulance delay.

You still haven't stated how you would have restrained GF, and there are no guarantees that had he been wrapped in foam padding if that would have any change in how he metabolized the drugs in his system.

Floyd didn't need restraining. Creep. And that was the point of the senior official's evidence.

Are you still going a$$wipe?

peacefularson wrote:

he absolutely would have died from the OD, because he did die from OD, not the MPD approved neck restraint. 9 minutes or 24 hours, it didn't kill him. chauvins knee pressure was so weak that at one point GF was able to lift his head off the ground.

I have provided plenty of evidence to the contrary about the OD. You continuing to make this assertion with such confidence without providing evidence beyond a fentanyl level and a girlfriend’s guess(I will take the norfentanyl/fentanyl ratio every time) does not reflect curiosity.

um, no, you posted ZERO evidence countering the fact that GF only started retaking opioids 2 weeks before the incident, took an entire baggie of drugs just before the incident, said he couldnt breathe multiple times before he was on the ground, was foaming out of his mouth, and the autopsy report revealed pulmonary edema.