George Floyd / Chauvin trial starts monday

Muldoon wrote:

the new jim crow wrote:

uh

Well, duh! You don't have to be a police sergeant to figure this out, but racists need help figuring this out:

https://www.bemidjipioneer.com/derek-chauvin-trial/6964364-Police-sergeant-Restraint-on-George-Floyd-should-have-ended-when-he-stopped-resisting

I'm not sure this helps the prosecution as much as many believe. It implies that the restraint was reasonable when initially used and for some time thereafter. I believe the prosecution has to argue that the knee restraint was always an unreasonable use of force, since they can't determine the moment Floyd died.

You are wrong. You haven't understood the evidence. The knee restraint wasn't justified once Floyd was unable to resist, handcuffed and on the ground. This was well before the moment he died.

Yeah, when he said "once someone is handcuffed they are not a threat", I knew this guy was a quack. He said he reviewed all the body camera videos and still made this statement! The Defense attorney should have shown the video of the police trying to put the handcuffed GF in the back of the police car, and then asked him that question again!

Armstronglivs wrote:

Muldoon wrote:

I'm not sure this helps the prosecution as much as many believe. It implies that the restraint was reasonable when initially used and for some time thereafter. I believe the prosecution has to argue that the knee restraint was always an unreasonable use of force, since they can't determine the moment Floyd died.

You are wrong. You haven't understood the evidence. The knee restraint wasn't justified once Floyd was unable to resist, handcuffed and on the ground. This was well before the moment he died.

At what point during the 9:29 do you think DC should have stopped restraining GF? How would you or anyone know if GF wouldn't start flopping around again when you lessened the restraint?

pupil3142 wrote:

yes, its impossible in such cases to say when resistance ends, since it can restart. hindsight is one thing.

once the restrained person is docile, surely it is in everyone's interest to gently re inforce that position by maintaining it? again, this doesnt mean ignoring the fact that they might have issues.

Anything to keep Chauvin's knee on his neck, right? Nauseating.

Floyd was unable to resist once he was handcuffed and on the ground. Those are the facts that matter in this case - any other hypothetical situation is irrelevant - and that's borne out in the testimony of the senior police officer. Chauvin had no cause to keep his knee on Floyd's neck.

But keep defending Chauvin, a police officer accused of murder - you'll side with him over his senior colleagues who say he was wrong.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Did you miss the part where the "police adviser" agreed that it is possible for someone to become conscious and quickly act violently?

Yes, he did say that but Floyd was not acting violently when he was handcuffed and immobilized on the ground. With three other officers there it hardly required Chauvin to render Floyd unconcious (and through preventing him breathing) in order to remove any possible "threat". That was the view of the officer testifying, that as Floyd was not offering resistance Chauvin should have taken his knee off him.

Why were the police not able to get GF to stay in the police car?

Do you think DC was trying to "render Floyd unconcious in order to remove any possible "threat"", or do you still think he just wanted to kill him?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

If the ambulance came five minutes earlier, which it should have, and GF died on the way to the hospital, what would you then blame as the cause of his death?

I am interested in the facts as they happened, not speculating about things that didn't happen.

Are you saying it isn't a fact that the ambulance went to the wrong location at first and then arrived late because of that?

There was no crowd of 100 and they weren't threatening the police officers. As the senior official said, they are trained to deal with these things. As a senior officer he's had years of experience - that will add weight to his testimony.

Armstronglivs wrote:

pupil3142 wrote:

yes, its impossible in such cases to say when resistance ends, since it can restart. hindsight is one thing.

once the restrained person is docile, surely it is in everyone's interest to gently re inforce that position by maintaining it? again, this doesnt mean ignoring the fact that they might have issues.

Anything to keep Chauvin's knee on his neck, right? Nauseating.

Floyd was unable to resist once he was handcuffed and on the ground. Those are the facts that matter in this case - any other hypothetical situation is irrelevant - and that's borne out in the testimony of the senior police officer. Chauvin had no cause to keep his knee on Floyd's neck.

But keep defending Chauvin, a police officer accused of murder - you'll side with him over his senior colleagues who say he was wrong.

So you think the police should have just thrown a highly drugged up, handcuffed person on to the ground and let them thrash around until the ambulance arrived? Are senior colleagues always right? Who was the senior colleague of the four police officers?

i forgot where i saw or heard it, but the testimony from Martin McMillan corroborates my claim

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/03/chauvin-trial-day-3-wrap-up-floyd-was-high-with-foam-around-his-mouth/

"Second, while being questioned by Prosecutor Eldridge, McMillian was asked how Floyd appeared to him while being restrained, with Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck. I expect Eldridge was hoping for a reply along the lines of “he looked like he was being killed.”

Instead, what Eldridge got was McMillian stating that Floyd had foam running out of his mouth. A perhaps stunned Eldridge responded with, “Foam in his mouth?” and McMillian immediately affirmed, “Yes, foam in and out of his mouth.”"

Armstronglivs wrote:

yawn wrote:

You mean the testimony of someone who doesn’t want to lose their job and who hasn’t been in the street in years supports the prosecution? This clown also said crowd size doesn’t matter. A crowd of 100 is definitely more intimidating then a crowd of 1. It doesn’t matter if you are arresting someone or juggling baseballs.

There was no crowd of 100 and they weren't threatening the police officers. As the senior official said, they are trained to deal with these things. As a senior officer he's had years of experience - that will add weight to his testimony.

Yep, definitely not 100, but that wasn't his point. You did see and hear that the crowd thought one of the officers, reached for his mace? You did see one of the Cup Food workers restrain Williams from getting closer/going after the police, right?

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You are wrong. You haven't understood the evidence. The knee restraint wasn't justified once Floyd was unable to resist, handcuffed and on the ground. This was well before the moment he died.

At what point during the 9:29 do you think DC should have stopped restraining GF? How would you or anyone know if GF wouldn't start flopping around again when you lessened the restraint?

'Flopping around'? That's a threat? You guys are unbelievable. You have 4 policemen and a suspect handcuffed on the ground. "Hey, let's snuff his life out - he might start flopping around!"

peacefularson wrote:

i forgot where i saw or heard it, but the testimony from Martin McMillan corroborates my claim

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/03/chauvin-trial-day-3-wrap-up-floyd-was-high-with-foam-around-his-mouth/

"Second, while being questioned by Prosecutor Eldridge, McMillian was asked how Floyd appeared to him while being restrained, with Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck. I expect Eldridge was hoping for a reply along the lines of “he looked like he was being killed.”

Instead, what Eldridge got was McMillian stating that Floyd had foam running out of his mouth. A perhaps stunned Eldridge responded with, “Foam in his mouth?” and McMillian immediately affirmed, “Yes, foam in and out of his mouth.”"

and GF ex-girlfriend/dealer also made that comment

peacefularson wrote:

i forgot where i saw or heard it, but the testimony from Martin McMillan corroborates my claim

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/03/chauvin-trial-day-3-wrap-up-floyd-was-high-with-foam-around-his-mouth/

"Second, while being questioned by Prosecutor Eldridge, McMillian was asked how Floyd appeared to him while being restrained, with Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck. I expect Eldridge was hoping for a reply along the lines of “he looked like he was being killed.”

Instead, what Eldridge got was McMillian stating that Floyd had foam running out of his mouth. A perhaps stunned Eldridge responded with, “Foam in his mouth?” and McMillian immediately affirmed, “Yes, foam in and out of his mouth.”"

The police do not have the right to kill someone who might - or might not - be high on drugs. Oh, I forgot - this is America.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Not all areas are the same wrote:

At what point during the 9:29 do you think DC should have stopped restraining GF? How would you or anyone know if GF wouldn't start flopping around again when you lessened the restraint?

'Flopping around'? That's a threat? You guys are unbelievable. You have 4 policemen and a suspect handcuffed on the ground. "Hey, let's snuff his life out - he might start flopping around!"

yeah, a drugged up, handcuffed person falls to the ground and starts smashing his face in to the ground, do you think the police should just stand back and let him do that and make bets on how long it will be before he knocks himself out or dies from the OD?

Armstronglivs wrote:

peacefularson wrote:

i forgot where i saw or heard it, but the testimony from Martin McMillan corroborates my claim

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/03/chauvin-trial-day-3-wrap-up-floyd-was-high-with-foam-around-his-mouth/

"Second, while being questioned by Prosecutor Eldridge, McMillian was asked how Floyd appeared to him while being restrained, with Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck. I expect Eldridge was hoping for a reply along the lines of “he looked like he was being killed.”

Instead, what Eldridge got was McMillian stating that Floyd had foam running out of his mouth. A perhaps stunned Eldridge responded with, “Foam in his mouth?” and McMillian immediately affirmed, “Yes, foam in and out of his mouth.”"

The police do not have the right to kill someone who might - or might not - be high on drugs. Oh, I forgot - this is America.

Exactly! Which is why they tried to bring him to jail, then when he resisted staying in the vehicle and cut his mouth they called the ambulance, then when he resisted further on the ground, they stepped up the ambulance call to level 3- EMERGENCY. No way did those guys intend on killing him that day.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

There was no crowd of 100 and they weren't threatening the police officers. As the senior official said, they are trained to deal with these things. As a senior officer he's had years of experience - that will add weight to his testimony.

Yep, definitely not 100, but that wasn't his point. You did see and hear that the crowd thought one of the officers, reached for his mace? You did see one of the Cup Food workers restrain Williams from getting closer/going after the police, right?

The bystanders became increasingly upset at seeing what the police were doing. They didn't threaten. They pleaded and remonstrated with the officers. What would you do if you saw such a situation, where you believe the police actions were snuffing out a life? You'd say - "it's ok, it's the police - they can do that".

If the police felt they were under threat, why didn't they call for back up? They didn't. They weren't even bothered by the cars going by on a busy street. The only time a weapon was drawn was on Floyd. For an allegedly fake 20 dollar bill.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Yes, he did say that but Floyd was not acting violently when he was handcuffed and immobilized on the ground. With three other officers there it hardly required Chauvin to render Floyd unconcious (and through preventing him breathing) in order to remove any possible "threat". That was the view of the officer testifying, that as Floyd was not offering resistance Chauvin should have taken his knee off him.

Why were the police not able to get GF to stay in the police car?

Do you think DC was trying to "render Floyd unconcious in order to remove any possible "threat"", or do you still think he just wanted to kill him?

I dont think you've have seen the 9'29" video of the end of Floyd's life. What was he doing to resist police during that time? Chauvin wasn't protecting himself - he was showing everybody his contempt for the human being under his knee and who had the power.

Yes foaming at the mouth which he was also doing the previous time he was arrested. One of the police this time also said his eyes were rapidly moving back and forth. The other passenger in the car, who Floyd's girlfriend said they had previously bought drugs from as said he was testify to the 5th if he is made to testify. The previous case of fliud being arrested would be devastating for the prosecution team and it is not to be allowed to be brought up in this case as it could demonstrate an operative modi.

Not all areas are the same wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I am interested in the facts as they happened, not speculating about things that didn't happen.

Are you saying it isn't a fact that the ambulance went to the wrong location at first and then arrived late because of that?

Whether the ambulance went to the wrong location or not - I haven't seen anything suggesting that - it doesn't change what Chauvin chose to do. And that is what he is on trial for. For killing a man. I have seen nothing that says the ambulance ought to have arrived before then (in which case the medics would have had no more likely success than the bystanders in getting Chauvin to take his knee of Floyd's neck).

Chauvin can't blame the ambulance for him choosing to snuff Floyd's life out. But you will.