Judged by their job titles this might actually be how deep involved Skins is in this scam. Their employee should by definition be capable to do these kinds of social media manipulations.
In the cycling community Mr Fuller is widely gated for his antics.
Investigator wrote:
Investigator wrote:This is even way more egregious than I thought. I compared a random sampling of Strava activities to TomTom screenshots, and it is abundantly clear to me that the TomTom screenshots are showing elapsed time.
This makes the Bannock data manipulation so blatant. I redid the analysis using Strava elapsed time and taking the TomTom time as the elapsed time. There is now a 1 mile section at 45mph that has been cropped off. I guess Robbie was used to keeping the watch on in the car...
http://i.imgur.com/cf0vnnC.jpgOK I explained this more here:
http://ryinvestigation.blogspot.com/2016/06/bannocklaughlin-incident-follow-up.htmlas a follow-up.
And no, this is not a blog that says its a blog to promote my own personal blog... Doesn't even have my name on it (which apparently, if you don't know the last name of the person who produced data, that means its worthless, according to Jaimie Fuller...) This was just an idea to organize the information in a coherent space for anyone to look at, rather than "its somewhere near the end of the 414 page LR thread, go have a look"...
Excellent. I received a reply email from Jaimie and have replied to him giving details of how the TomTom and Strava data do not match up, and asking him to make sure the experts he appoints are aware of this. At least they might look at the smoking gun first, right?
"Thanks Rachel
Also to confirm the investigation will not be limited to data analysis. The data will be part of it. I've been sent a dossier of lots of accusations as 'evidence'. This has already been forwarded to one confirmed panel member and I'm hoping to do same with second member today but he's traveling and not easy to get hold of.
This issue goes beyond the data and all information needs to be analyzed
Cheers
Jaimie"
What's needed is 5 clear points that unambiguously shows that RY cheated/is cheating. Something like:
1) he has not released the tomtom data
2) the released Strava data are just about half of the "run", modified and plain worthless
3-5) the most egregious runs, adjusted for elevation, altitude, heat and subsequently compared to world records
Ever heard of sarcasm or humour?
Doctor of Memeology wrote:
Skins problem wrote:Not at all. 75.9% of marathonmanuk facebook likes are from Turkey and 16.7% from the UK. There's a large community of new/slow runners in Turkey and they're big fans of ultramarathon running and obscure multi-day running challenges.
http://imgur.com/Koa1IYPI'm assuming this is a troll post.
There is no way in hell the Turkish likes are real. Not once on any of RY's Facebook posts have I seen a Turkish profile post a comment. Besides the location of the likes not being his home country, the lack of interaction is key.
The other warning sign is the massively skewed distribution of like locations. A page with that many likes should not have 30,000 more likes in Turkey than the next popular country, the UK, with 10,000. The nature of the way Facebook shows posts to people means people in the UK should see the posts as well, meaning there should be more UK likes. The only legitimate way to get so many Turkish likes without also accruing UK likes would be if he specifically targeted ads to Turkey, and hid his page from the UK (this is possible in the page settings). Otherwise it would be inevitable to gain UK likes along with any other likes as the following grows.
The OP of that image used likescheck.com I just used it again and Rob's UK likes are growing (out of sympathy?) - now up to 16.9%. I don't know why there are so many Turkish likes but little direct interaction from Turkish fans.
http://i.imgur.com/K3bsRmo.jpgThat's odd. 49.1% of Scott Jurek's FB likes are from the U.S. and none from Turkey:
ACCC wrote:
https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/accc-alleges-misleading-and-deceptive-conduct-resale-price-maintenance-by-skinsSuggest these guys are involved in the independent review. They know some of the key players already.
I am absolutely "shocked" that Jaimie Fullofit has been accused of MISLEADING AND DECEPTIVE CONDUCT!!!
I think Jaimie is an Australian who is hiding his company in Switzerland where he can have secret bank accounts that may be connected to Dr. Ferrari of Italy.
Since Jaimie is an Australian (not a Brit)…does this make him a Commonwealth liar?…or a state that was previously part of the BRITISH EMPIRE liar?
And now with this Brie cheese exit, I am not sure what kind of liar he is.
I also am surprised that Robbie has not tried to explain the Asher incident with the simple explanation... that he sometimes runs with a Harry Potter Invisibility Cloakâ„¢.
runnerrachel wrote:
"Thanks Rachel
Also to confirm the investigation will not be limited to data analysis. The data will be part of it. I've been sent a dossier of lots of accusations as 'evidence'. This has already been forwarded to one confirmed panel member and I'm hoping to do same with second member today but he's traveling and not easy to get hold of.
This issue goes beyond the data and all information needs to be analyzed
Cheers
Jaimie"
+1 - thanks Rachel.
executive summary needed wrote:
What's needed is 5 clear points that unambiguously shows that RY cheated/is cheating. Something like:
1) he has not released the tomtom data
2) the released Strava data are just about half of the "run", modified and plain worthless
3-5) the most egregious runs, adjusted for elevation, altitude, heat and subsequently compared to world records
I wonder how easy it is to demonstrate the final point though, especially since some ultras seem to doubt the existing record too. What do we compare his claims with? I would also be curious to hear what a top east African marathon runner might think of those runs up in the mountains. Either as an individual session of part of a transcons (where they might not have relevant experience).
The other thing I am curious about, absent his HR data, is his exertion levels when he is knocking out these sub 6mms? Did anyone report back on his breathing levels, whether he was easily talking at the same time? Laz I think said that by the time he showed up those paces were just fast bursts to impress him and he couldn't sustain them. What about runners who joined him earlier?
Companies that are lax at doing their due diligence tend to be poor at all sorts of corporate governance.
I really hope that Skins were merely lax with RY as opposed to complicit as they were in their former sponsorship scandal.
I previously used to like Skins compression wear so am very disappointed the more I see.
The Scot wrote:
executive summary needed wrote:What's needed is 5 clear points that unambiguously shows that RY cheated/is cheating. Something like:
1) he has not released the tomtom data
2) the released Strava data are just about half of the "run", modified and plain worthless
3-5) the most egregious runs, adjusted for elevation, altitude, heat and subsequently compared to world records
I wonder how easy it is to demonstrate the final point though, especially since some ultras seem to doubt the existing record too. What do we compare his claims with? I would also be curious to hear what a top east African marathon runner might think of those runs up in the mountains. Either as an individual session of part of a transcons (where they might not have relevant experience).
The other thing I am curious about, absent his HR data, is his exertion levels when he is knocking out these sub 6mms? Did anyone report back on his breathing levels, whether he was easily talking at the same time? Laz I think said that by the time he showed up those paces were just fast bursts to impress him and he couldn't sustain them. What about runners who joined him earlier?
It's imperfect, but Strava segments are probably your best bet there. If he is topping the segment table for runners and closer to the ride times than the run times, that would be highly suspect. The only segments I believe at the moment are those where he is demonstrably off-road and no wheeled vehicle could cover the same ground. Most of those seem to have been done at walking pace.
Skins problem wrote:
That's odd. 49.1% of Scott Jurek's FB likes are from the U.S. and none from Turkey:
http://i.imgur.com/7H8AkYq.jpg
This how a distribution of likes should look.
Stravaman wrote:
Skins problem wrote:That's odd. 49.1% of Scott Jurek's FB likes are from the U.S. and none from Turkey:
http://i.imgur.com/7H8AkYq.jpgThis how a distribution of likes should look.
For reference, here is an example from a facebook page I manage. The largest chunk is from the UK, then the US and progressively fewer likes from mostly European countries.
http://i.imgur.com/FhBSDFr.jpgIf you combine his two Strava accounts, I make it 2075 miles of data, or roughly 3320km. So which segments are still missing?
runnerrachel wrote:
The data supplied on Strava do not come close to covering the entire distance Rob claims to have run. There are huge gaps, so how can the data possibly be used to confirm or deny his cheating when there is so much missing?
"
It's definitely clear what runnerrachel means from the content of her post. It's just a bit of sloppy editing of a long post. We've probably all done something like this so we should cut her some slack.
What she intended to say was something more like this below.
There are huge gaps, so how can the data possibly be used to confirm his claim that he ran his these distances each day? Missing data, erased data, and existing data with unbelievable times are a compelling argument for cheating.
fisky wrote:
runnerrachel wrote:The data supplied on Strava do not come close to covering the entire distance Rob claims to have run. There are huge gaps, so how can the data possibly be used to confirm or deny his cheating when there is so much missing?
"
It's definitely clear what runnerrachel means from the content of her post. It's just a bit of sloppy editing of a long post. We've probably all done something like this so we should cut her some slack.
What she intended to say was something more like this below.
There are huge gaps, so how can the data possibly be used to confirm his claim that he ran his these distances each day? Missing data, erased data, and existing data with unbelievable times are a compelling argument for cheating.
Thanks, yeah, it was messy but hopefully got the point across. I was also deliberately trying not to be too inflammatory - that affected how I wrote what I wrote. He has replied promptly both times I've emailed so we can only hope the investigation will be for real. ( and I didn't even have to play the "fellow Aussie" card)
Racergirl wrote:
The Scot wrote:I wonder how easy it is to demonstrate the final point though, especially since some ultras seem to doubt the existing record too. What do we compare his claims with? I would also be curious to hear what a top east African marathon runner might think of those runs up in the mountains. Either as an individual session of part of a transcons (where they might not have relevant experience).
The other thing I am curious about, absent his HR data, is his exertion levels when he is knocking out these sub 6mms? Did anyone report back on his breathing levels, whether he was easily talking at the same time? Laz I think said that by the time he showed up those paces were just fast bursts to impress him and he couldn't sustain them. What about runners who joined him earlier?
It's imperfect, but Strava segments are probably your best bet there. If he is topping the segment table for runners and closer to the ride times than the run times, that would be highly suspect. The only segments I believe at the moment are those where he is demonstrably off-road and no wheeled vehicle could cover the same ground. Most of those seem to have been done at walking pace.
Yes, problem is based on the ones I've been through is how few segs he actually hit. That's another thing that would be good to have some summary listing of.
ACCC wrote:
Companies that are lax at doing their due diligence tend to be poor at all sorts of corporate governance.
I really hope that Skins were merely lax with RY as opposed to complicit as they were in their former sponsorship scandal.
I previously used to like Skins compression wear so am very disappointed the more I see.
I have previously never heard of SKINS compression wear. I am sure that I would of hated them.
I am also sure that I would really hate them now.
Nobody should wear SKINS ever again.
Not even once.
SKINS is complicit since Michael is from SKINS and has been in the RV as part of TeamRobbieLiarâ„¢ the entire trip.
By the way…It is now called a trip instead of a run.
3-5) the most egregious runs, adjusted for elevation, altitude, heat and subsequently compared to world records[/quote]
I wonder how easy it is to demonstrate the final point though, especially since some ultras seem to doubt the existing record too. What do we compare his claims with? I would also be curious to hear what a top east African marathon runner might think of those runs up in the mountains. Either as an individual session of part of a transcons (where they might not have relevant experience).
As far as the huge runs up the mountains, I am surprised that our Ultra running community has not checked in. I know we kid a lot about Ultra guys being good walkers but in all honesty the elite guys can run fast when they want to. And I know some are reading this thread. I wonder if they find it feasable that a 3:11 marathoner would be running similar paced stretches during the middle of a transcon up mountains at elevation?
Another thing. Lets say you are running a 15 mile net down hill run. Are you going to maintain a 6:15 pace on 2-4 mile uphill stretches of 1,000 ft during that run? Seems to me that the pace would slow considerably for every Ultra runner as he conserves energy.
What say ye Ultra dudes?
