hhhhh wrote:
False: yesterday Judge Kavanaugh denied ever having blacked out from alcohol. He did say he (might have) drank and fallen asleep.
That's a distinction without a difference. You might say it's a matter of degrees, but then you're just splitting hairs.
Flagpole wrote:
Yeah, he made a mistake there, a BEHAVIORAL mistake where I think he lacks, but someone with the kind of drinking he did and the entitlements he believes he has who did well enough to get into Yale as both an undergrad and then as a law school student who then rose to the ranks of Judge that he did...that means he's pretty smart. He's an a$$hole even if these allegations aren't true, but he is gifted intellectually.
Didn't one of the LRC founders go to Yale?
So that's not saying that much. It certainly doesn't prove that someone is intelligent.
The same for passing the bar exam, which many people could have done who never even went to law school.
Becoming a judge is due to appointment, i.e. what rich people you will cover up for, not how intelligent you are.
He is what he is, a serial abuser rapist of women, a compulsive liar, a circle jerk buddy, and a person of low intelligence.
He has demonstrated in this hearing how stupid he is.
Flagpole wrote:
He's an a$$hole even if these allegations aren't true, but he is gifted intellectually.
How so?
Flagpole wrote:
If Kavanaugh were smart (and I actually think he's outrageously smart, just misguided on policy and likely personal behavior), he'd bow out now. He can say that no job is worth this and that he is stepping away to protect his family from further torture.
I'm not sure that will keep the law off of him at this point, but that's probably his best bet.
Kavanaugh was the subject of six separate FBI background checks, and none of these accusations came up, EVER. We are to believe he abused women for 3 decades, and miraculously every one of them remained silent about it until this past month. He clerked for Justice Kennedy, for Pete’s sake. Gorsuch went to high school with him. No one had ever heard anything?!?!? It defies logic. Ford supplied the names of all the witnesses, and None of them substantiated her claims. Her good friend, the one she went to the party with, the one Ford says herself she left alone in a house with attempted rapists after she escaped... this friend doesn’t remember a party where her good friend (Ford) went to the bathroom and just disappeared!?!! Never called her the next morning to say “Hey, what happened to you?!!!” That’s just not your normal evening. Ford remembers consuming one singular beer, JUST ONE, but not how she got home after she escaped the house. Now which of those two facts is the trivial one, and which is the fact you would think would stand out in your mind.
Listen, I was a Democrat for years. First presidential vote I cast was for Mondale, but I can’t just ignore the nonsense, the lying, the obvious hypocrisy of the party leaders anymore. Doesn’t mean I’m in love with the Republican Party, or that I’m a Trump fan boy, but I’m not going to just shut off my brain, ignore logic, and fall into lockstep because my party demands it. I can’t do it. I won’t crucify this man for the “cause.”
It’s OK to be an American citizen and be without a political party. It frees you up to start thinking for yourself.
Are you asking if the same CIA and same FBI which screwed up prior to September 11th, 2001 is capable of missing something in a background check?
Flagpole wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Yes you do. Just this week you jumped on the Avennati claim. It seems like even the most bizarre theories you fall for. Cleary you are extremely partisan and emotionallly locked to your biases.
You are an idiot. I was all for Gorsuch being seated...elections have consequences which I accept, and while I wouldn't have picked him, even though he's a conservative, he hasn't shown any outrageous behavior that would disqualify him for the Supreme Court.
What we have here is a guy who McConnell is trying to ram through despite him not allowing Merrick Garland to even have a hearing. Now, that would be dirty pool right there, BUT Democrats would have to suck on that because that's how the system works. Democrats now have a right to do the same thing if it happens again but the tables are turned.
Back to Kavanaugh...
He has THREE accusations of sexual assault against him from women who have come forward and given their names. We have only heard from one of them, and we didn't get to hear from all the supposed witnesses in her case.
He has TWO other accusations that have been brought against him from unnamed people involving sexual assault, one of them being a rape.
Mark Judge has been named in THREE of these accusations. Why are Republicans against hearing from him?
We have students at Yale saying that Kavanaugh was a heavy drinking drunk in college and not the choir boy he has tried to represent himself as.
So, Kavanaugh said time and again, "ask people who know me". Ok...lots of Yale students including one of his roomates say he was a HUGE drinking drunk, so a LIE from Kavanaugh. We have THREE women who knew him who say he sexually assaulted them. We have TWO other women who have not given their names who said he sexually assaulted them.
Knowing that women don't typically want to come out about these types of allegations (actually men too), how many others are out there?
I'm not even saying he's for sure guilty, just that these are credible allegations from credible women and that a further investigation is warranted.
Avenatti is known as someone who very carefully vets clients he takes on. He had a few women approach him about Trump whom he didn't take on because they didn't vet well. He is very forceful in saying that Julie Swetnick was assaulted by Kavanaugh and that they have corroborating witnesses.
All of it deserves to be looked at.
If you want to be mad at Democrats, then be mad about how Dr. Ford's name was leaked, because it is highly likely that came from a Democrat, and THAT is dirty pool, and I do not support how that came about at all, EVEN IF it ultimately leads to Kavanaugh not being confirmed.
BUT, the allegations themselves deserve to be looked at...all very credible.
I look at facts and evidence and am perhaps the least partisan regular poster here. I've said many times that John Kasich would make a great president for example, and I've said many times that Hillary was a greatly flawed candidate.
Anyone who supports Trump at all or Kavanaugh BLINDLY is an extremely biased partisan. I am not...
...unless you think for some reason that only Democrats can care about respecting women and hearing women. If that's what you mean by being partisan, then I plead guilty.
Flagpole,
Interesting. Certainly not my impression of Avennati or the claim. At this point there are zero facts that justify issuing a warrant. Both genders have a right to fairness under the law.
Igy
It's all a set up. wrote:
joedirt wrote:
That is why they withheld the information until the last minute and why they violated everyone's confidentiality to leak the information to the press rather than produce it in the original FBI background check when it could have been handled appropriately.
You're right, it would have been handled and investigated appropriately and dismissed, the Dems knew this, which is why they've done it this way to get maximum effect. It's all fairly despicable when you think about it.
Until someone figures out how Dr. Ford's story was outed to the press, any accusation of political dirty tricks is just speculation.
There is a perfectly innocent explanation for how this might have occurred the way it did. Dr. Ford testified that she talked to a few people about the matter before going to her congressperson. It's quite possible that as we got later in the process, one of Dr. Ford's friends blabbed about it.
But even if it was someone in Washington who leaked the story, we don't know who it was or why they did it. I've even heard some people speculate that it was someone at the White House.
Speaking of Roe v. Wade, here's an interesting development:
I left the party wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
If Kavanaugh were smart (and I actually think he's outrageously smart, just misguided on policy and likely personal behavior), he'd bow out now. He can say that no job is worth this and that he is stepping away to protect his family from further torture.
I'm not sure that will keep the law off of him at this point, but that's probably his best bet.
Kavanaugh was the subject of six separate FBI background checks, and none of these accusations came up, EVER. We are to believe he abused women for 3 decades, and miraculously every one of them remained silent about it until this past month. He clerked for Justice Kennedy, for Pete’s sake. Gorsuch went to high school with him. No one had ever heard anything?!?!? It defies logic. Ford supplied the names of all the witnesses, and None of them substantiated her claims. Her good friend, the one she went to the party with, the one Ford says herself she left alone in a house with attempted rapists after she escaped... this friend doesn’t remember a party where her good friend (Ford) went to the bathroom and just disappeared!?!! Never called her the next morning to say “Hey, what happened to you?!!!” That’s just not your normal evening. Ford remembers consuming one singular beer, JUST ONE, but not how she got home after she escaped the house. Now which of those two facts is the trivial one, and which is the fact you would think would stand out in your mind.
Listen, I was a Democrat for years. First presidential vote I cast was for Mondale, but I can’t just ignore the nonsense, the lying, the obvious hypocrisy of the party leaders anymore. Doesn’t mean I’m in love with the Republican Party, or that I’m a Trump fan boy, but I’m not going to just shut off my brain, ignore logic, and fall into lockstep because my party demands it. I can’t do it. I won’t crucify this man for the “cause.”
It’s OK to be an American citizen and be without a political party. It frees you up to start thinking for yourself.
I know for a FACT that fed background checks don't turn up everything.
You know what’s hilarious about you and all the other democrats, you don’t care about Dr. Ford at all. You and your friends just want to advance your agenda and delay this beyond the mid terms. You’re pissed you lost the election and you haven’t gotten over it. You’re pissed that they lost the house and senate which in the end is the real kick in the nuts. Look at Booker and Ellison. I don’t see you whining about that.
There is nothing to investigate. All you are going to get is a bunch of statements from witnesses that will be a mixed bag with no clue whether they are telling the truth or not. The statutes of limitations have expired a long long time ago. For god sakes, one accusation is about gang rapes in which the idiot decided to keep going back to these parties to continue to get ALLEGEDLY raped. It’s ridiculous and completely delusional.
I wish Flake didn’t fold today or said nothing at all. He had it right the first time. This is exactly why he will never get re elected. He’s weak and soft.
Good for Lindsay Graham for stepping up. Democrats need to get back to the notion of innocence until proven guilty.
The party of morality, is it?
A week from now we will be in the same place. Senators will be forced to vote in favor of facts or spurious allegations.
RecognizeTheTimeline wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
What we have here is a guy who McConnell is trying to ram through
He's not "ramming him through" Flagpole. His confirmation is already two, now three weeks behind schedule due to the Democrats' continued delay tactics that they are accommodating.
The confirmation is not behind schedule. There is no schedule for "advice and consent" of a Supreme Court nominee. The Senate can take as long as it likes.
As we have seen, it can even wait for the next president.
joedirt wrote:
She was never raped or worse.
THIS. I think Ford is somewhat of a snowflake. How many women have been through far worse than this and didn't need 2 front doors in the house remodel 30 years later.
Not surprised she is a college professor, are you?
Flagpole wrote:
I'm not even saying he's for sure guilty, just that these are credible allegations from credible women and that a further investigation is warranted.
The word 'credible' seems to have lost all meaning. What does it mean in those cases?
All this stuff about Democrats waiting too long to bring the allegations up is pretty interesting stuff when you compare how Democrats have dealt with nominations since Garland got snubbed. Trump won office without a majority of the popular vote and an electoral college win that could have gone the other way without gerrymandered districts. Before that, Republicans in the Senate, a body that should be majority Democrat but for the population shift away from the interior to the coasts, deprived Democrats of the ability to flip a conservative spot on the court simply by blowing off a nomination because it was too close to the election. If Democrats had any stones, they would be doing wwwwaaaayyy more to knock the Kavanagh train off the tracks.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
You are an idiot. I was all for Gorsuch being seated...elections have consequences which I accept, and while I wouldn't have picked him, even though he's a conservative, he hasn't shown any outrageous behavior that would disqualify him for the Supreme Court.
What we have here is a guy who McConnell is trying to ram through despite him not allowing Merrick Garland to even have a hearing. Now, that would be dirty pool right there, BUT Democrats would have to suck on that because that's how the system works. Democrats now have a right to do the same thing if it happens again but the tables are turned.
Back to Kavanaugh...
He has THREE accusations of sexual assault against him from women who have come forward and given their names. We have only heard from one of them, and we didn't get to hear from all the supposed witnesses in her case.
He has TWO other accusations that have been brought against him from unnamed people involving sexual assault, one of them being a rape.
Mark Judge has been named in THREE of these accusations. Why are Republicans against hearing from him?
We have students at Yale saying that Kavanaugh was a heavy drinking drunk in college and not the choir boy he has tried to represent himself as.
So, Kavanaugh said time and again, "ask people who know me". Ok...lots of Yale students including one of his roomates say he was a HUGE drinking drunk, so a LIE from Kavanaugh. We have THREE women who knew him who say he sexually assaulted them. We have TWO other women who have not given their names who said he sexually assaulted them.
Knowing that women don't typically want to come out about these types of allegations (actually men too), how many others are out there?
I'm not even saying he's for sure guilty, just that these are credible allegations from credible women and that a further investigation is warranted.
Avenatti is known as someone who very carefully vets clients he takes on. He had a few women approach him about Trump whom he didn't take on because they didn't vet well. He is very forceful in saying that Julie Swetnick was assaulted by Kavanaugh and that they have corroborating witnesses.
All of it deserves to be looked at.
If you want to be mad at Democrats, then be mad about how Dr. Ford's name was leaked, because it is highly likely that came from a Democrat, and THAT is dirty pool, and I do not support how that came about at all, EVEN IF it ultimately leads to Kavanaugh not being confirmed.
BUT, the allegations themselves deserve to be looked at...all very credible.
I look at facts and evidence and am perhaps the least partisan regular poster here. I've said many times that John Kasich would make a great president for example, and I've said many times that Hillary was a greatly flawed candidate.
Anyone who supports Trump at all or Kavanaugh BLINDLY is an extremely biased partisan. I am not...
...unless you think for some reason that only Democrats can care about respecting women and hearing women. If that's what you mean by being partisan, then I plead guilty.
Flagpole,
Interesting. Certainly not my impression of Avennati or the claim. At this point there are zero facts that justify issuing a warrant. Both genders have a right to fairness under the law.
Igy
Precious Roy wrote:
Trump won office without a majority of the popular vote and an electoral college win that could have gone the other way without gerrymandered districts.
You know district lines don't affect the electoral college vote or the Senate.
What I truly can't stand is the hypocrisy of the Democrats. The longest speech in the debate today was delivered by Cory Booker, who has admitted to as much as what Kavanaugh has been charged with. The man admitted to groping a classmate (stealing second as he light heartedly referred to it) in a 1992 column for the Stanford student paper. I guess if Kavanaugh doesn't get elected to the SCOTUS, there is always the senate, or he could be like Clinton and head for the presidency. When the alleged indiscretions of a 17 year old boy are the scandal of the day, we are at a sad time indeed.
Won't wade into what I think should happen here, but what confounded me about BK's testimony was his lies about seemingly minor things under oath.
The Renate alumnus thing. C'mon.
"Beach Week Ralph Club." Refers to getting a sick stomach from spicy food OR beer?
And just in general refusing to admit he drank to excess. Particularly when there are a lot of witnesses who have no comment on any of the assault claims, but claim BK drank a lot.
I'd have found him way more credible if he could tell the truth on these little things and just own up to a past where he drank a lot, sometimes to excess. Most people, myself included, have at some point.
More to the point, why not admit in polite language that he was a fratty asshole who grew up? Who hasn't know someone who was an asshole, only to later grow up?
It all strains credulity.