50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

@ SCgal, glad you are beginning to heal up. Castle Peak is my favorite, just magnificent. A number of years ago we did a 32 mile loop around Castle Peak from Fouth of July trailhead. The trek involved some off trail scrambling and bush whacking. We usually eat at the Mountain Village at the highway intersection. The cheeseburger I had was good, but you could taste the local slaughter house "gamey-ness."

@ oldguy II, I remember Phil Camp well. Great runner in Southern California era of the late 60s and early 70s. Give him my regards, perhaps he will remember the name. Good job on your recent races. Cross country is my favorite running sport. The uneven surfaces seem to exacerbate my current physical ailments.

@MikeF I sent you an email. Look forward to seeing the photo. Last week Perry Forrester enjoyed looking at some old photos I had from that period. We had a few chuckles about then and now. "Chariots of Fire" to "Wheel Chairs in Mud." You must be making progress with your recent mileage bump.

Igy

Congrats on the anniversaries, Lucky and BM58. Good story re: the hobby jogger, MF. I too have trouble getting folks to understand why I race 800/1500/mile and not marathons, and why it's not so easy just because it's short.

16 days post elbow surgery. I'm typing with 2 hands today (woo hoo). Had the splint and sling taken off on Thursday, replaced with an adjustable brace which I'll have for the next 4+ weeks. The surgeon gave me permission to run as soon as I'm up to it. My biggest problem the past 10 days was swelling in my hand, wrist and forearm. However, with the sling gone the swelling has reduced significantly each day, although my wrist/hand is still sore. Not to mention the elbow. Right now, I have about 25-30 degrees range of motion.

I went for a 4 mile walk on Friday, upped that to 7 miles yesterday, and today walked 6 then jogged the final 1.5 miles. Tomorrow I'll try a normal run.

SCGal, glad to hear you're progressing too.

amkelly, yes any ride where you don't crash is a good ride.

Cavorty, thanks for the run ideas . I have walked the beach you mention and will be giving it a go soon. Also thanks for the Horse Camp rec as I was wondering about this as well.

Decided to take a 4 week break from running. After the first week feels good. My left foot has not been 100 percent since March. Slowly was getting better never hurt during a run but just the same this is one of the reasons I am taking a break. Also want to build up my hiking/walking/base and begin a nice buildup for next spring and summer.

Diet and exercise has done wonders for my blood work:

2015:ldl 179 a1c 5.7 started a good diet kept minimal on exercise weight 170

2016:ldl 156 a1c 5.5 started running in nov weight 158

2017:ldl 126 a1c 5.3 also bp down 15 pts weight 142

Onward!

Congrats LucKY, that's great.

I had another week of a sore Achilles. I spun on the indoor cycle 3 times, rode outside once, swam once 1.5 miles (bad week to have my pool be closed!). I also ran 3 times on a treadmill, including a stress test session. It felt ok with the incline flat to slightly down.

On the positive side, I had an "executive physical", one of those all day affairs where everything is scanned. I originally had one almost 10 years ago so the ability to contextualize the results was pretty cool. My body fat was up 3% and I have lost some muscle weight. I was training for the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon at that time, so I was more dialed from a training perspective. The calcium test checking for plaque in my carotid arteries was a 0, the same as 10 years ago. So zero = totally clean! Dr said my chance of dying from a heart attack in incredibly low. Other good news was he said I had the least amount of visceral fat he'd ever seen. This is the fat inside the chest cavity -- the really bad kind. Scored 101% on the stress test -- Achilles didn't like the 18% grade!

The biggest change going forward is incorporating more core/weights and removing some swimming.

So, hard work and taking care of yourself pays off. I didn't ask for the "low t" or hgh prescription lol

Happy Labor Day weekend --

On Tuesday, I was looking for the three mile repeats at 6-flat, but couldn't make it happen. As I desperately try to hold onto fitness, it is discouraging to note that way back in April I did 4 x 1 mile FASTER with LESS recovery time.

Injuries continue to limit both intensity and volume -- barely 40 miles this week, and just one workout. Goal marathon is four weeks from today, so hopefully ibuprofen, ice and a big dose of willpower will allow a couple quality workouts and at least one more long run during before I start tapering.

I'm still hoping for 3:05, but that is increasingly doubtful as overall volume may not support that level of running. Friday's long run was a struggle, especially the last couple miles.

AUG 28 - SEPT 3, 2017:

Easy:Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.6 mph

VO2max: 3.5-mi warmup; 3 x 1 mile w/4:55 walk/jog @ 6:16, 6:13, 6:05; 2.5-mi cooldown

Easy:Bike 23.8 miles @ 19.7 mph

Easy: 4.0 miles @ 8:41/mi; Bike 24.0 miles @ 19.6 mph

LR: 22.5 miles @ 8:08/mi

Easy:Bike 19.8 miles @ 18.7 mph

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 10:12/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 40.8 MILES

2017 Racing

5K: 18:57 April 2 (6:06/mi)

Half Marathon: 1:28:41 April 30 (6:46/mi)

15K: 59:59 August 6 (6:26/mi)

lucKY2b -- Happy anniversary, and happy belated birthday! Seems like there are a few of us here that turned 58 this year.

Have a good week, everyone!

-Allen

a good week of training, with a hilly 20 minute tempo tuesday, and 2x2miles at around 5:45 pace thursday. this was actually at a memorial run for a 48 year old clubmate, juan ramirez, who sadly died last week during a nighttime run around mile square park here in orange county (hit and run, but they found and arrested the guy). never send to know for whom the bell tolls...

ran an x-c race saturday morning, the covert classic, with the intent to "trace" it (my portmanteau word for using a race as a training run) since i'd had a good strong week of workouts. so you can call it a bad race or a decent workout, depending on perspective--barely broke 30 minutes for 8k on a soft grass and dirt course--was still hoping for a better workout, given the audience and the 200 runners helping me through my "trace," but can't be too disappointed. got to say hello to meet namesake, the legendary mark covert, he of the 45 year running streak (not sure i have too many 45 day running streaks).

i have noticed how it's gotten significantly more difficult for me to try to race tired as i've aged, so i'll have to rest more for my first serious x-c race in 2 weeks at uc riverside...

stay healthy my friends,

cush

L2b - congrats on getting closer to the next AG and happy 35th!

MikeF - that, How many miles in an 800?... is priceless!

14 1/2 miles for the week, with a 2 mi race.

Sun - 4 mi @ 9:15 pace.

M - 4 1/2 mi including 4x1 min @ 1500 pace, with 2 min rec

W - 2 mile jog

F - 2 mile race in which I ran about 12:18 for 6th over all. Won the 60 AG as I was the only one in the div. Haven't seen official results yet. The race has a long up hill, but we did finish at a lower elevation than the start. I was with 4 guys at the start of the hill, but they all had over 60 yards on me at the top. If I had been in real good shape, I might have cut that gap down to 30 yards, lol.

Best to all!

@Allen your 15k at 6:26 is a better indicator than the vo2max stuff just relax hays in the barn enjoy ect;)

Health well we all are entering the stage of life where mortality becomes concrete.

I only want to know about the stuff I can change and not the stuff that I can do nothing about.

For instance if there was a DNA damage test that returned your chance of getting any type of cancer I would pass on this. What if I am only 1 mutation away from death? I do not want that hanging over my head. What if my coronary arteries are 90 percent blocked with crud hey I do not want to know this.

If given the option I would rather drop dead on a run than waste away in hospice.

Your 6 days younger than me lucKY.

I had my best week of "training" in some time. Compared to most of you guys I am reluctant to call it training. Really it is just having fun. Anyhow it was a pleasing week.

Mon. 22 km mountain bike ride in 1.07.

Tue. 10 km flattish trail run in Knowsley Forest. Started at a shuffle working down to 5.00 for the 4th km. From there the kms were 4.43 4.47. 4.58 (uphill) 4.35 4.35 and rolled through the 10 th in 4.24. Felt good to be running comfortably in the 4 somethings again.

Wed. am. 35 min kayak session.

pm. Rode the mountain bike home from the big smoke. Headwind all the way for 54 kms. Quite a slog. 2 hr 47 min.

Thu. 11.5 km run on the steep rocky McIvor Ranges from my back door. 400 metres of elevation gain 1 hr 23 min.

The Nat. Park is looking good as Spring arrives. 1000s of bright yellow wattles.

Fri. 21 km mountain bike ride. Just turning the legs over. 1 hr 4 min.

Sat. 33 min kayak then a 6.4 km run along the railtrail in 31 mins.

Sun. 14 pretty brutal kms on some of the same trails as last Sunday. It took me 2 hours with 780 metres of elevation gain. Km 10 took 18.48. Felt great and finished strongly.

73 miles for the week, capped off with a late entry double double at my inconsequential podunk state/region USATF T&F masters championships.

First up was 3000, which I did in 10:33, for 1st and new AG record. I'm happy with that as an altitude time. Next was the mile, which was just 20 minutes later. I really felt that 3000 so took the first 800 pretty easy (2:44) but closed okay on last lap to finish 5:23 or 5:24 (didn't get the official time--we got out of dodge because they were expecting 99-100 today).

Yeah smoke in the air here too. Hope everyone can stay cool as these dog days of late summer wind down.

Coyote M,

You are a much faster Podunk Champion than I! Ha ha.

Great running at sea level, amazing at altitude.

Igy

pretty fun training week on my end

M 1:00 with 30:00 tempo (approx. 4.5 miles) + 1:00 bike

Tu 1:40 double

W 2:00 double

Th 1:15 with 4 X 4:00 (2:00 jog) @ 5k pace (a bit over 1000 meters each)

F 1:00

Sa 40:00 + 40:00 bike

Su 1:00 -- first 30 mins. on beach at family reunion

very sorry to hear about your clubmate -- that must have come as quite a shock.

Dave

Second workout today, non-running:

- Hip stretches

- Basic stretches

- Back stretching routine

- 100 pushups, 50 situps, 30 dumbell curls each arm (20 lbs); 30 wrist curls (30 lbs barbell)

I know most here don't post their stretching and strengthening, but I think there is a case to be made for being up-front about it.

For one thing, I probably spend most of my workout time stretching and strengthening, not running. (But running is the reason I do it.)

Second, I believe stretching and strengthening is more important as we age. Probably I couldn't run at all now if I didn't do both stretching and strengthening. (I didn't do much of either when younger. "Juventud, divino tesoro!")

Third, this may be an area where we can learn from each other. For example, I don't learn much by reading about someone else hammering runs that I can't possibly emulate: all that does is remind me of my own limitations. (Although sometimes I find it inspirational to read about things I can't do.) But if I read that someone else here is benefiting from a stationary bike, or the elliptical, or stretching, or pool running, or yoga, or whatever, that information could possibly help me because it is actionable.

So, just a few thoughts. No one else has to agree with anything I say. As someone else said, "Each of us is an experiment of one."

Charlie wrote:

@Allen your 15k at 6:26 is a better indicator than the vo2max stuff just relax hays in the barn enjoy ect;) ...

Thanks, Charlie. For months now, every step of every run has been painful, and it's coloring my outlook. I'm aggravated that I couldn't maintain 60 miles per week. Sub-3 hours might have been possible.

Still, of the hundreds of races I've run over the past 44 years, there have only been a few disappointments, and most of those were during high school! Race-day magic almost always takes me beyond my goals and expectations.

And usually beyond what my training logs might predict.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

I know most here don't post their stretching and strengthening, but I think there is a case to be made for being up-front about it.

After 50-plus minutes to "run" five miles this afternoon, I invested a few minutes to stretch my legs -- basically "knee to my chest" and "toe touches," but standing on the stairs. Then I did dumbbell curls -- 20 reps with 20 lbs on each hand, then 20 reps up over my head (standing). A couple times a week I try to schedule bridges (hold for 50 seconds on each side, weight on forearm and foot), leg lifts, "hip thrusts," clam shells with an elastic band, and one set of 45 crunches. As many as three one-hour bike rides at 18-20 mph, which is a sustained hard effort for me, although my heart rate is pretty modest throughout, except for the climbs. Age 58, weight has crept back up to 160, height 5'11". PRs -- 4:45 mile (age 17), 16:10 5K (age 23), 2:40:30 marathon (age 23).

Allen1959 wrote:

Age 58, weight has crept back up to 160, height 5'11"

You might find it worth the effort to lose some weight. Frank Shorter was 5'10", 135 at Munich 1972 (that's *before* the race).

If you have the discipline to work this hard on your running and stretching and strengthening, you have the discipline to lose the pounds that are slowing you down. The rule of thumb I have heard is 1 pound=2 seconds per mile. Not to mention the additional pounding on your body of carrying around useless fat weight.

Unfortunately, as we age, our body composition changes for the worse: less muscle, more fat, even at the same weight as you were in your youth.

I have lost about 20 pounds in three months. My own plan visualizes two stages: first I lose the weight and get down to the running weight I want to maintain. (In my case I am targeting 160 pounds; at 6'5" I am significantly taller than you.) Then I will try to maintain my weight at 160 while working in the gym to regain strength, because during the weight-loss process it is hard to avoid losing muscle along with the fat.

Regaining strength will necessarily mean gaining muscle, which will necessarily mean losing even more fat if I want to maintain at 160. Kind of "reverse-engineering" my body to try to regain a more youthful body composition.

Maybe I am doing things all wrong--probably I am--but "Each of us is an experiment of one." This is my current experiment.

It was a not-too-bad week for me. Got in 4 pretty solid jogs, though I did back off some on the last two due to some cramping in the right calf. Hopefully that has now gone the way of the Dodo. No golf this week for a variety of reasons. I'll hopefully get back on the links tomorrow.

Sun: 53' jog, body wt ex

Mon: 1 hour walk, 7.5 mi bike

Tues: 52' jog (same route as Sunday, just felt a little friskier)

Wed: off

Thu: 43' jog, body wt ex, med ball routine

Fri: 1 hour walk

Sat: 43' jog, body wt ex

Congrats to those celebrating anniversaries and birthdays.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

I know most here don't post their stretching and strengthening, but I think there is a case to be made for being up-front about it.

Great suggestion. I am sure there is a vastly broader range of stretching and strengthening choices among us than variations in training choices. Currently, I have a fairly consistent routine that I follow. After I have a cup of coffee I row for 20 minutes on an old Concept II machine. I then do 20 leg swings with each leg to work on stride length. Next 20 step-overs with each leg to help with range of motion and hip strength. Finally, I do 40 eccentric heel drops and then put on my shoes and head out the door for my run/walk. After I shower post-run, I spend a couple of minutes on hamstring stretching and do 2 sets of 16 one-legged squats to rebuild and balance strength in my legs that I lost when I got a bad case of runners knee a year and a half ago. Age 67 weight still is at 130 lbs (height 5'8")and hasn't varied more than +/- 5lbs since I was in college, mainly due to good genes. I have two sons in their mid-30s, one of whom was a decent college runner and the other a pretty good college runner. The older one still races and runs about 35-45 mpw and is 5'11" 135lbs, and the younger runs about 15-25 mpw and is 6'0" and about 145lbs. Definite skinny genes in the family.

After my XC season ends mid-November I probably will expand my strength work if no over-use issues have developed during the racing season.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

You might find it worth the effort to lose some weight. Frank Shorter was 5'10", 135 at Munich 1972 (that's *before* the race).

Yeah, as I go into pre-marathon "taper mode," I need to be careful not to put on pounds. I was maintaining 155 or under until the last couple weeks. That was my weight as a skinny 17-year-old, and a lot lighter than my racing weight in my 20s, 30s and 40s.

Normally I work a physically-demanding job, but have lately been confined to my workshop, rushing to complete a furniture commission (was a stack of rough-sawn air-dried black walnut two weeks ago). Anyway, that's a lot more sedentary than mixing lime-sand plaster ... or stone masonry ... or carrying lumber up to a third-floor renovation.

And my kitchen is only a short walk from my shop :-)

Best wishes regarding your weight, strength and running goals. Twenty pounds in three months is impressive!