I'm Done. The Mezra death brought home how cycincal and damaging this website it to real people

SDSU Aztec wrote:

He didn't need an accomplice. All he had to do was keep circling back to retrieve his bike. If he did have an accomplice, it would have been someone outside of his circle of friends and family that he paid $100. No friend or family member would encourage such self-destructive behavior.

You have an extremely naive view of human nature.

Ernest wrote:

The Mooch wrote:

This thread is really devolving into weirdness. Why keep it open? Is there anything at all left to flush out of this thing?

^Seems to me someone said the same thing about 10, 20, or 30 pages ago.

Looks like people still had/have things to discuss.

Most recently, consensus emerged that existence (or severity) of Frank's heart condition was recently shown to be "suspect".

Nobody really dove into whether Frank had accomplices, during - or after the fact.

The next photo to appear might have been a family member loading up "the bike" on a car carrier?

The thread will die down on its own.

Who benefits when the thread is censored?

That's a weird post.

If there are significant, unanswered questions about the extent and nature of Frank's cheating, the topic open and relevant.

Not needing an accomplice doesn't mean he didn't have one.

Who is most likely to have helped or known about Frank's cheating?

Using a string of paid strangers seems improbable (how would you find, train and trust such persons?).

And it's just hard to believe that over many years Frank's family were never on course to observe/support him.

Some poster here anecdotally related how their own family and friends didn't turn out, but they weren't Frank - he was high-profile and setting record after record.

Planning and execution behind Frank's cheating are impressive.

The bike(s) had to be acquired and transported. He may have used disposable bikes, but they still had to placed on course.

Frank could ride a bike over a timing mat sometimes, which you'd need a lanyard to get a chip reading - and he used one.

But Frank was also spotting and photographed running backwards on courses, so another way he seems to have cheated was to ride a bike close to a timing mat, dismount, approach the mat walking or jogging, perhaps seeming to be a spectator, waving the chip over it, then retreating back to the bike and repeat the process for the next segment .

He could do that solo, but would need to lock the bike up and unlock it (to ensure it'd be there when he returned).

Leaving the bike behind with an accomplice would be easier/faster. With an accomplice or accomplices, he wouldn't have had to retreat on course at all, or backtrack as far, if the guarding accomplice also moved the bike.

Depending on the course, you might mix both cycling and riding in a car as non-running ways of ferrying between timing mats.

TBH, while I suspect Frank had help performing, or at least covering up, his cheating, I personally don't care if anything else unfolds.

But to say there's nothing left to discuss or know isn't accurate.

There are people still trying to say his DQs were due to timing malfunction.

If you don't want to know answers to these sorts of questions, or don't want others to know, squelching the thread is the right thing.

Why is the autopsy report still not available on Marathon Investigation?

Why am I paying them $20 a month if they don't give us the goodies?

Voices in my head wrote:

Ernest wrote:

^Seems to me someone said the same thing about 10, 20, or 30 pages ago.

Looks like people still had/have things to discuss.

Most recently, consensus emerged that existence (or severity) of Frank's heart condition was recently shown to be "suspect".

Nobody really dove into whether Frank had accomplices, during - or after the fact.

The next photo to appear might have been a family member loading up "the bike" on a car carrier?

The thread will die down on its own.

Who benefits when the thread is censored?

Are the Meza family and friends still keeping you from asking questions?

LMAO

Sure are!

Now, as before, by a campaign of disinformation, detraction, distraction, and by calling for halt to discussion.

"The crazies are bringing it hard..."

Ernest wrote:

. . .

And it's just hard to believe that over many years Frank's family were never on course to observe/support him.

Some poster here anecdotally related how their own family and friends didn't turn out, but they weren't Frank - he was high-profile and setting record after record. . .

Not following this thread real closely but the above seems astute. How is it possible that someone who was pretty high profile (always humbly bragging about his times, setting age group WRs . . . ) had NOBODY at all who EVER came to watch him at any of his races? Dozens of races? For a decade or more? And never once did a friend or family member come out to one of the courses to watch him pass by and then notice that he did not pass by?

It is difficult to believe that there are not quite a few people in Frank's circle who knew perfectly well that he was cheating. Whether or not they were actively helping him do so is a different matter.

The LAM is point to point so they probably just waited for him at the finish and didn't travel with him to other marathons. What Frank was doing was pathological and just wouldn't be accepted by friends and family. People seem to view his family as being lowlife because they won't accept his guilt, but they are educated, successful people. They are being accused of unlikely, deviant behavior without evidence.

I wouldn't help a friend or family member cheat and neither would most of you.

It’s deviant behavior, but it’s definitely likely as well.

My guesses:

His son at least suspected, but didn’t want to confront his dad.

His wife cared less and never went to a race. She assumed he was legit.

His daughter went to some races, but waited at the finish and had no experience to detect he wasn’t running it all. Again, she assumed it was all legit.

Conclusion: Keep the family out of it. I don’t think for a second that they were complicit.

Aside: I still feel like I wish I could talk to Frank and tell him not to throw away his life because of some embarrassment and shame. He had so much to live for. He would have been forgiven.

Educated, successful people do unlikely, deviant things all the time. Case in point: Frank Meza.

PS - It NEVER makes sense to point to someone as "educated", "successful", "coming from a good family", "religious", . . . and then claim that such characteristics somehow indicate that they could not also be "deviant", "destructive", or worse.

It’s a sad and fascinating story wrote:

. . .

Aside: I still feel like I wish I could talk to Frank and tell him not to throw away his life because of some embarrassment and shame. He had so much to live for. He would have been forgiven.

Yes. This is the biggest takeaway for me. What a tragedy.

Almost anybody will be forgiven for almost anything, if only they come clean, swallow their pride and humbly ask for forgiveness. Easier said than done.

jesseriley wrote:

It’s deviant behavior, but it’s definitely likely as well.

Since it's likely, that means you would help your friend or family member cheat at marathons. Also, it's entirely doable to do what Meza did without help so why would he ask for any? If he had someone to haul his bike around why did he need a bike?

Suspicion is not the same as accusation.

A few months ago, Frank was suspected of cheating.

At the time, there were those who cited exactly the same rationale for why Frank wouldn't have cheated as are now cited for others. 'Why would a highly educated and successful person do such a thing?'

As alien as cheating may be to you and me, we know educated and successful people do sometimes cheat and lie.

It's suspected Frank had help, and/or had those who knew and kept quiet.

And if there were accomplices, it's suspected those closest to him, perhaps family, are those most likely.

Suspicion is the first step in an investigative process, one which may not complete or turn up anything.

If Scott Dominguez (LA Depty DA) is still on the thread, he could speak to that process. Remember him? Trying to scare off MI and who wrote "I can guarantee you that these allegations that Dr. Meza would "cheat" on his times is FALSE!"

If we've learned anything, it should be that Truth isn't determined by what seems probable or relatable to some.

As I said, I don't really care if the Meza family were involved, and if that's uncovered - but if someone says they couldn't possibly have been, I have to take issue with that.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

It’s deviant behavior, but it’s definitely likely as well.

Since it's likely, that means you would help your friend or family member cheat at marathons. Also, it's entirely doable to do what Meza did without help so why would he ask for any? If he had someone to haul his bike around why did he need a bike?

You are not being logical there. Stating that it is likely meant that "jesseriley" considered the evidence at hand and concluded that it was more likely than not that this happened in this particular case. That is an entirely different process and set of facts than looking at one particular family (one's own) and concluding that this is the way they would act.

You can try to support your views without making completely illogical statements. Please try to do so.

Seven11 wrote:

It’s a sad and fascinating story wrote:

. . .

Aside: I still feel like I wish I could talk to Frank and tell him not to throw away his life because of some embarrassment and shame. He had so much to live for. He would have been forgiven.

Yes. This is the biggest takeaway for me. What a tragedy.

Almost anybody will be forgiven for almost anything, if only they come clean, swallow their pride and humbly ask for forgiveness. Easier said than done.

Agree,

Meza had so much going for him. That's the real tragedy. He painted himself into a corner but always had another way forward.

As someone else noted, that Online Reputation Management firm should have counselled confession over cover up.

Coming clean could have been spun as a positive. Everyone loves a redemption arc.

He could have written a book, done public speaking engagements, "How I cheated and got away with it", or helped races design better course controls, like a reformed cat burgler turned security consultant.

He had health and wealth - if nothing else, there were a lot of anonymous, sunny beaches and margaritas waiting.

Actually, most non-deviant families wouldn’t be such hopeless enablers of a crooked member. They would attempt to intervene, put them on a better path.

The Meza family are out-doing themselves, trying to keep the lie going, doubling down on a strategy that resulted in tragedy already.

Seven11 wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Since it's likely, that means you would help your friend or family member cheat at marathons. Also, it's entirely doable to do what Meza did without help so why would he ask for any? If he had someone to haul his bike around why did he need a bike?

You are not being logical there. Stating that it is likely meant that "jesseriley" considered the evidence at hand and concluded that it was more likely than not that this happened in this particular case. That is an entirely different process and set of facts than looking at one particular family (one's own) and concluding that this is the way they would act.

You can try to support your views without making completely illogical statements. Please try to do so.

What "evidence at hand"? "They must have known" is not evidence.

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

thoughts and prayers wrote:

As far as I understand it Frank was dq'd for irregular splits. He agreed that his splits were indeed irregular and did not contest it.

He did not admit to course cutting or cheating of any kind or that his overall time was incorrect. Basically he was dq'd due to a malfunctioning of their timing equipment and not through any fault of his own...so why not keep the hard earned finishers medal?

Did someone suggest that the "online reputation management" people had gone away ? This suggests otherwise.

It is rather incredible the lengths people will go to in order to blame the timing equipment for people cheating.

I was merely speculating on why he kept the medal.

Anyway, it doesnt really matter. Its fairly obvious to me that Frank kept all his medals for the same reason he cheated...to show everyone how awesome he was and receive the appropriate amount of adulation.

Seven11 wrote:

It’s a sad and fascinating story wrote:

. . .

Aside: I still feel like I wish I could talk to Frank and tell him not to throw away his life because of some embarrassment and shame. He had so much to live for. He would have been forgiven.

Yes. This is the biggest takeaway for me. What a tragedy.

Almost anybody will be forgiven for almost anything, if only they come clean, swallow their pride and humbly ask for forgiveness. Easier said than done.

I don't believe forgiveness was the issue for Meza. His image was obviously important to him and for his self-perception to go from successful, respected doctor and marathon star to marathon cheater would have been overwhelming.