Ndereba "Best", Radcliffe "Fastest"

i'm only speaking for myself, but i have no idea who won the '92, '96, or '00 (abera maybe?) olympic marathons. i do remember KK beating tergat and geb in london in WR time, i remember KK setting the WR the first time, i remember takahashi and ndereba battling for the WR for a year or two and then paula destroying them both. i remember that bill rodgers has won 4 bostons and 4 new yorks. i know that he, steve jones and t. seko are three of the best marathoners since shorter and none won an olympic or WC marathon.

the truth is that olympic and WC marathons don't have the same prestige as, say, the olympic and WC 5k. they just don't have the same level of competition with any consistency. paula's world record and other marathon wins are timeless compared to last year's olympic marathon champion (which was who, again?).

Well, having gotten through this thread, I stand by my words: Rosa Mota is the best!

Last years Olympic Marathon had EVERYBODY in the mens race, there was nobody missing except KK and he is dubious to say the least.

GR wrote:

Love how this article from Kenya forsees the race between the "best marathoner in the world" in Catherine Ndereba, versus Paula Radcliffe, the "fastest marathoner in the world."

In running, the best IS the fastest. If you want to give recognition to consistency, then fine, call this race a match of the "best" (or "fastest") against the "most consistent." These aren't baseball pitchers, and career wins and longevity do not determine the best.

Hello letsrun.com,

My name is Jim Peters. For those of you not familiar with my marathon performances, I first lowered the WR of 2:25:39 by Yun Bok Suh of Korea to a stunning 2:20:42 at Cheswick in June of 1952.

The following year at Cheswick, I became the first human being to run under 2:20 for a marathon with my 2:18:40 performance.

Later that year in Turku I lowered my own WR to 2:18:34 and finally returned to Cheswick in 1954 to set my ultimate PB of 2:17:39.

I desperately wanted to win Olympic Gold, but after a blistering 20 miles in 1952 in Helsinki I succumbed to cramps and would never run another Olympic Marathon again.

I am nowhere in the league of an Abebe Bikila, but I can be in consideration with Paula Radcliffe and Derek Clayton- both phenomenal record-setters but not Olympic Champions.

Radcliffe is the fastest marathoner in her era, much like I was in mine and Clayton in his, but to say she is the best is premature.

Good topic and thank you. I await for the unfolding at Helsinki, a place where I have great, yet hurtful memories.

aht wrote:

In running, the best IS the fastest. If you want to give recognition to consistency, then fine, call this race a match of the "best" (or "fastest") against the "most consistent." These aren't baseball pitchers, and career wins and longevity do not determine the best.

The best or greatest of all time isn't always the fastest. Is Tergat the greatest/best men's Marathoner of all time? Astafa Powell in the 100 meters?

"aht wrote:

In running, the best IS the fastest. If you want to give recognition to consistency, then fine, call this race a match of the "best" (or "fastest") against the "most consistent." These aren't baseball pitchers, and career wins and longevity do not determine the best."

I agree. What an ignorant post.

Check out the Women's Marathon progression. The women crowded together are considered equivalent talents. Will someone say Kristiensen is better than Benoit? Or Waitz than Kristiansen? How about Loroupe or Takahashi? What separates Takahashi and Benoit from this group are thier Olympic Golds. That's what separates the men from the boys.

In 10 years time, we will look back and consider Ndereba and Radcliffe equals despite the time difference, with Ndereba being greater due to her World Gold and Oly Silver and Radcliffe a disappointing talent... as of now. We shall see in Helsinki.

Have any of you considered if Radcliffe were to crash in Helsinki, what would you think then?

http://www.athletix.org/Statistics/wrmarathonwomen.html

Hello Jim Peters, I'm Paula Radcliffe, the only woman in the world who'd own your ass in a race. That, to me, is worth more than an Olympic silver. I do not think -even remotely- you can be in consideration to me.

Hey Jim, do they have wi-fi in heaven?

http://running.syr.edu/column/19990125.html

Oh, and- if you hadn't nearly killed yourself in Vancouver in '54, you'd a been the KING in '56! I mean c'mon, Alain Mimoun took the gold? (Oh yeah, and so much for being 'great' in winning the Olympic 26.2- I mean, who the hell even knows who Alain Mimoun is???) And I am sure you will agree that the only "great" marathoner of recent history to ever win the gold was Carlos Lopes- mainly because he proved he was also the fastest just 8 months later in Rotterdam.

GR wrote:

Olympic Golds. That's what separates the men from the boys.

So I suppose Fatuma Roba and Valentina Yegorova are "automatically" better than Paula Radcliffe, because they have Olympic golds and she doesn't, right...?

I agree with the earlier poster who said that Championship marathons don't hold as much prestige as other events. Often, Big city marathons have much better line-ups and they are the races that marathoners prepare more seriously for.

Times, records, head-to-heads, career wins, big city wins, etc, ALL rank ahead of 'championship wins' when assessing great marathoners.

Sounds like a lot of bitter Radcliffe freaks who ate crow when Radcliffe bonked at Athens.

I feel bad for those of you that live your athletic "lives" through Paula Radcliffe. She is just a runner, and a great one at that.

These runners are not super-heroes. They are not invincible. They will succumb to injuries, poor tactics, and better runners.

And for all those who continue to say "Radcliffe was injured.." Frank Shorter ran Montreal on a broken foot. She just could not produce on the given day, and as PAULA RADCLIFFE HAS STATED:

"I would trade my World Records for Olympic Gold any day of the week." -Paula Radcliffe, BBC Nov '04 after NYC

Yeah, but Ndereba doesn't have an Olympic gold so she's not the best ever either.

GR wrote:

In 10 years time, we will look back and consider Ndereba and Radcliffe equals despite the time difference, with Ndereba being greater due to her World Gold and Oly Silver and Radcliffe a disappointing talent... as of now. We shall see in Helsinki.

You're telling us how "we" will consider today's runners in a decade? I suppose I am "ignorant," compared to you. After all, I can neither speak for others, nor see into the future.

I can say this, though: if in 10 years, Radcliffe still owns the marathon world record -- and especially if it remains a whopping 3:22 faster than anyone else's -- she will clearly remain, as she is today, the world's best (fastest) woman marathoner.

No Offense wrote:

The best or greatest of all time isn't always the fastest. Is Tergat the greatest/best men's Marathoner of all time? Astafa Powell in the 100 meters?

Not to split hairs, but the original quote used the word "best," not "greatest." In sports, there is a slightly different connotation. To say an athlete is "better" suggests a difference based on quantifiable performance. Unlike some sports, racing is easily quantifiable. The best runner has the best times. To say an athlete is "great" can mean the same exact thing, but it also suggests fame, legend, as in Muhammed Ali's "I am the greatest!"

When you add the further embellishment "of all time," you tilt the meaning of "greatest" even further from performance to fame. Expanding the criteria to "all time" requires comparing athletes of different eras, with different available technologies, etc. In any case, it's irrelevant when weighing Radcliffe against Ndereba, as they've had the same opportunities, the same technologies, etc.

Of course Tergat and Powell are currently the best; they have race times which are the best at their events. Whether they are the "greatest" -- "of all time" -- or most worthy of admiration, etc., doesn't really concern me.

As the Great Al Lawrence always would tell me...

"You're only as good as your last race, lad..."

I'm putting my beans on the Kenyan. Ndereba should win.

GR wrote:

Sounds like a lot of bitter Radcliffe freaks who ate crow when Radcliffe bonked at Athens.

Dude, she's got the world record by a whopping 3:22! And if I'm not mistaken, three of the fastest marathon times ever run by a woman.

It's hardly a stretch to say she's the "best marathoner."

Sounds to me like YOU'VE got something AGAINST Radcliffe.

The fastest don't always win. The smartest do. Radcliffe if good paced runner.

100!