Genzebe Dibaba Out of Worlds

I only showed that "Lance never failed a test" is a historically false statement -- a myth that was created by Lance that still lingers today. The rest is all noise created by you.

I guess anyone can potentially sue anyone. Participation in the Tour de France is by invitation of the organizers, who likely followed and applied their own rules and code of conduct, independent of the UCI. ASO cannot sanction the team for doping beyond its own events -- that is the role of the cycling federation, the UCI. To my knowledge, the Festina team was not banned by the UCI for doping. In an case, there was a strong professional link between the Festina soigneur and the Festina team. The stream of information has been admittedly scarce but I'm unaware of any established professional link, either licit or illicit, between Aden and Mounir, outside of Aden paying the hotel -- something not illegal in Spain, nor an anti-doping violation. It's sad to say that maybe three years later, some of this will come out only after the court case, but it is what it is.

doping watcher wrote:

Only the Belgian physio Willy Voet was caught in posession of EPO. And he was in car travelling IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY over 500 miles and 2 sea crossings away from the location of the Festina cycling team. Richard Virenque and the other Festina riders were tested and tested negative. Therefore, by your logic (which is in line with that of the IAAF), you could potentially sue the 1998 Tour de France organizers for unjustifiably throwing the Festina team out of the 1998 Tour de France. By your logic they had no grounds to do such a thing and they should have only banned Willy Voet.

The false statement is that "Lance never failed a test". Nothing about "official fail" or "leading to sanction" or "doping charge" in that mythological statement. These repeated demonstrations of backdated prescriptions do not turn failed tests into a non-failed tests, but just provide an explanation for the failed test. The failure status of the tests remain unchanged by a backdated prescription. Nevertheless: Contrary to your claim, the cortisone tests were "official fails". Lance officially failed 4 official cortisone tests in 1999. As the final word on both the irregularity of backdating the prescription, and the lack of independence of the "independent report", I refer you to UCI's CIRC report. (Hint: the UCI Independent report clearing Lance was not so independent after all, according to the UCI). Final conclusion: Lance failed 4 tests for cortisone. Lance failed 6 tests for the presence of EPO in his urine. Lance may or may not have been the most tested athlete, but there is no doubt in history that several of those tests failed.

doping watcher wrote:

Nope you are totally misrepresenting what happened in order to convey the message you want to convey. NONE of those test results were official fails.

As said on this thread several times now the cortisone test results were explained by the use of a cortisone cream for saddle sores:

...

"The report, commissioned late last year by the International Cycling Union, cleared the record seven-time Tour de France champion of allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs during his first win in 1999.

It said tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything." "

I think you are not very informed about Actovegin. Actovegin is not new, and has been analyzed by the IOC and by WADA. It was banned by the IOC for 2-months until they decided it was not performance enhancing. Is Actovegin even a prescription drug? I don't know. It is not harmful, and it is not clear that it provides any performance benefit, nor that it violates the spirit of the sport. It may violate some countries national drug laws as its use is not approved in that country, but this decision has nothing to do with athletes or spirit of the sport. I think you are extreme to consider routine injections of non-banned substances unacceptable.

Salazar has faced doping allegations, does that mean all of his athletes are guilty? Hassan and Klosterhalfen both made significant improvements quickly after joining NOP, isn't that shady enough considering his history? Everyone is so quick to jump on the Africans i.e. Dibaba for doping (even though she was tested and tested negative when some of her training group was caught using EPOs) yet everyone is so happy for Hassan and Klosterhalfen as they crush their personal bests. Could Dibaba be guilty? yes. But everyone assuming she is when Hassan and Klosterhalfen are in a similar situation is biased and their suspicions are just speculation.

Facing doping allegations doesn't mean that any of his athletes are guilty. There is no intellectual or evidential barrier to allege doping. Anyone can make an allegation. To establish guilt requires a lot more, starting with a basis.

xcxcxcxcxsrsfd wrote:

Salazar has faced doping allegations, does that mean all of his athletes are guilty? Hassan and Klosterhalfen both made significant improvements quickly after joining NOP, isn't that shady enough considering his history? Everyone is so quick to jump on the Africans i.e. Dibaba for doping (even though she was tested and tested negative when some of her training group was caught using EPOs) yet everyone is so happy for Hassan and Klosterhalfen as they crush their personal bests. Could Dibaba be guilty? yes. But everyone assuming she is when Hassan and Klosterhalfen are in a similar situation is biased and their suspicions are just speculation.

xcxcxcxcxsrsfd wrote:

Salazar has faced doping allegations, does that mean all of his athletes are guilty?

No, that means the group is more than shady.

He has actually already had one doped athlete (Decker), has used a forbidden method (Magness, and likely Ritz + Rupp), has used testo on his sons (allegedly to find out its detection limit), and distributed his meds to his athletes, and Rupp and Farah were classed as "likely doping" by the IAAF.

xcxcxcxcxsrsfd wrote:

Hassan and Klosterhalfen both made significant improvements quickly after joining NOP, isn't that shady enough considering his history?

Of course it is.

Btw Hassan was also on the likely doping list, before joining NOP, and has improved further. Kloster has improved even more, I'd say.

This is completely false Rekrunner, from start to finish. Aden's career has been hampered because there's an interpol warrant out for his arrest. In one room of the motel in Sabadell a physio with enough PEDs to build a mutant army many times over and in the other the world's faster ever miler, use your brain for a change mate.

I'm using the analytical part of my brain, not the creative imagination part.

Subway Surfers wrote:

This is completely false Rekrunner, from start to finish. Aden's career has been hampered because there's an interpol warrant out for his arrest. In one room of the motel in Sabadell a physio with enough PEDs to build a mutant army many times over and in the other the world's faster ever miler, use your brain for a change mate.

Has this turned into a another doping apologist/denying thread by rekrunner? Imagine my shock! Too bad jon orange isn't still around.

rekrunner wrote:

I'm using the analytical part of my brain, not the creative imagination part.

Subway Surfers wrote:

This is completely false Rekrunner, from start to finish. Aden's career has been hampered because there's an interpol warrant out for his arrest. In one room of the motel in Sabadell a physio with enough PEDs to build a mutant army many times over and in the other the world's faster ever miler, use your brain for a change mate.

Wouldn't part of assessing whether or not a coach is involved with doping practices would be analytical & logical thinking? You don't think Aden was involved in any way, shape or form with the Sabadell doping bust? You don't think this was an organized doping scheme at an altitude camp utilizing to two most reliable PEDs (EPO & androgens) that mid-d/distance runners have been using for decades?

And what about the convicted dopers (Laila Traby, Hamza Driouch & Belayneh) Aden has coached? Purely coincidental and nothing to see there?

Are you an advocate of Aden? ?

Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:

And what about the convicted dopers (Laila Traby, Hamza Driouch & Belayneh) Aden has coached? Purely coincidental and nothing to see there?

Are you an advocate of Aden? ?

..and Deselegn as noted earlier. A veritable nest of snakes.

I hope this link works

https://www.pressreader.com

Or this

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-6960831/Haile-Gebrselassie-insists-row-Mo-Farah-began-Jama-Aden-refused-entry-hotel.html&ved=2ahUKEwjV143st-HkAhWYXCsKHUNYBRE4ChAWMAB6BAgIEAE&usg=AOvVaw2d1LYRITIY0HqQpCYQrVFr

I don't stop using the word "basis". By "basis" I mean "basis in fact" and not "basis in imagination". I am advocate for bases in facts. In the Sabadell bust there are two facts which are a part of my analytical thoughts: FACT 1: According to police reports, Mounir and Balla were the only ones caught "red-handed" with EPO. FACT 2: According to police reports, Aden was caught red-handed with "non-doping" substances, albeit still illegal in Spain.

Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:

Wouldn't part of assessing whether or not a coach is involved with doping practices would be analytical & logical thinking? You don't think Aden was involved in any way, shape or form with the Sabadell doping bust? You don't think this was an organized doping scheme at an altitude camp utilizing to two most reliable PEDs (EPO & androgens) that mid-d/distance runners have been using for decades?

And what about the convicted dopers (Laila Traby, Hamza Driouch & Belayneh) Aden has coached? Purely coincidental and nothing to see there?

Are you an advocate of Aden? ?

Hassan ran 3:56 before having anything to do with Salazar/NOP. She improved on that mark only after 4 years with NOP although she improved a lot on longer distances in 2017 and 18 already.

Klosterhalfen ran 1:59/3:58/8:29 at 20 yo long before NOP and on relatively low mileage. Her former German coach had expected her to run 14:30s in 2018 had she not become injured in that season.

If one goes by improvement jumps of formerly middling athletes, Houlihan and Debues-Stafford should be far more suspect than Hassan and Klosterhalfen who were both world class before joining NOP.

Salazar/NOP must be one of the most scrutinized groups after the accusations years ago. He would need undetectable stuff or having the ADAs of at least four countries (USA, Japan, Ethiopia, Netherlands, Germany, Australia) on his payroll to avoid positive tests. Hassan and Koko are setting NRs all the time, each of this time they will get tested, in addition to all the other tests.

rekrunner wrote:

I'm using the analytical part of my brain, not the creative imagination part.

Subway Surfers wrote:

This is completely false Rekrunner, from start to finish. Aden's career has been hampered because there's an interpol warrant out for his arrest. In one room of the motel in Sabadell a physio with enough PEDs to build a mutant army many times over and in the other the world's faster ever miler, use your brain for a change mate.

You have no choice. The creative imaginative part of the brain doesn't appear to exist in your case. Unfortunately it is what is necessary to have a grasp of what the world is like outside your basement.

Likewise, it looks like the analytical part of yours is stuck in the 1960s.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I'm using the analytical part of my brain, not the creative imagination part.

You have no choice. The creative imaginative part of the brain doesn't appear to exist in your case. Unfortunately it is what is necessary to have a grasp of what the world is like outside your basement.

rekrunner wrote:

Likewise, it looks like the analytical part of yours is stuck in the 1960s.

Armstronglivs wrote:

You have no choice. The creative imaginative part of the brain doesn't appear to exist in your case. Unfortunately it is what is necessary to have a grasp of what the world is like outside your basement.

+1

I used to find it annoying, but now I find this amusing. I imagine that I'm like Ivan Pavlov, watching the predictable reaction to my username posting controversial posts such as affirming Lance tested positive, and repeating the uncontroverted contents of police reports from the Sabadell bust, and announcing new CAS sanctions, trigger a half-dozen Pavlovian responders, some who continue to expand the definition of "doping apologism/denial".

Imagine my shock! wrote:

Has this turned into a another doping apologist/denying thread by rekrunner? Imagine my shock! Too bad jon orange isn't still around.