Al Jazeera uncovers doping among leading Kenyan athletes

Now this is getting out of hand! wrote:

Alll wrote:

Unfortunetly I'm not El K. I'm from Poland.

Now you're pretending to be Polish? Do you really hate where you are from?

Make believe is fun. BTW I'm Elvis, no the Queen, oops I meant a member of Queen. No I'm Rekrunner or is that Renato. OK you got me, I'm really Al Sal.

El Poland wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

(I can assure you, I'm a lot more up to speed on excusing doping in Kenya than you ever will be.)

There. Fixed.

Hey I’m just a humble guy from Poland with a keen interest in protecting Kenya’s fine anti doping reputation. Don’t mind me.

???

You're a lying sack of sh!t. He in no way attempted to show that Lewandowski was doping. He pointed out the double standard, Musagala has a big improvement so it must be doping, Lewandowski has a big improvement so it must be hard work. He stated he was happy that Musagala won (why you think that's wrong I have no idea) and also that he was happy Lewandowski set a new national record. Stop lying and misrepresenting what others say.

Coevett wrote:

doping apologist? wrote:

Just because more people are getting caught in one country doesn't mean more people in that country are doping. Has it ever occurred to you that athletes from 1st world nations might have access to better, more sophisticated doping programs and thus are less likely to get caught?

Oh yeah. I forgot about that argument. For every Kenyan who gets busted, it proves that five Brits and Americans are getting away with it. You're right, we've never been able to come up with an answer to that.

I never suggested anything of the sort. Read the articles I linked and offer me an explanation. Will you ever admit it's possible that distance runners from America and Great Britain cheat?

I've never said Western athletes don't cheat, but there's something called evidence - and it clearly points to an out of control doping problem in East Africa (as well as North Africa).

If Brit and American distance runners are all juiced to the gills but have more intelligent Italian coaches and doctors than the Kenyans, why are American sprinters getting caught so often, and why are Russian/Bylorussian/Ukrainian middle-distance runners and racewalkers getting caught so often (pretty sure Russia has a more advanced doping program than GB or Norway)? Why don't you present your 'argument' in the thread I started the other day ('To those who say everybody dopes..')?

This!

You have a long history of lying and misrepresenting what others say.

AIII has posts saying he is very happy for Lewandowski, so how anyone who "studied logic " (obviously another lie) interprets that as trying to prove Lewandowski doped, is beyond comprehension.

You have zero credibility on this site.

And this?

Plenty of evidence was presented to you on that (yet another crappy, racist) thread and you totally ignored it.

Now go on repeating lies, like Rotich's coach gave a urine sample in his place, or that Kenyans are going backwards with their 800 m times, or even that everyone who disagrees with you here is ex-runner or El Keniano.

I've NEVER accised Lewandowski of doping. I just showed that every country has dopers. You're talking like this problem is only in Africa, but it isn't. Of course it's bigger, but that doesn't mean that rest of the world don't use doping

Just lmao at the gym wrote:

El Poland wrote:

Hey I’m just a humble guy from Poland with a keen interest in protecting Kenya’s fine anti doping reputation. Don’t mind me.

???

It wasn't my message. I always post from registered account

doping apologist? wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Oh yeah. I forgot about that argument. For every Kenyan who gets busted, it proves that five Brits and Americans are getting away with it. You're right, we've never been able to come up with an answer to that.

I never suggested anything of the sort. Read the articles I linked and offer me an explanation. Will you ever admit it's possible that distance runners from America and Great Britain cheat?

This also wasn't me. I post from: Alll

Nah. You're so far off the mark. I'll make it easy for you: doping is rife in Kenya. All dopers should get life bans.

The point stands, that the clip posted by Coevett, uncovers nothing. Coevett's pretty much said the same.

But given you're not particularly bright...

Kiprop is so full of crap I feel bad for him.

doping apologist? wrote:

Just because more people are getting caught in one country doesn't mean more people in that country are doping. Has it ever occurred to you that athletes from 1st world nations might have access to better, more sophisticated doping programs and thus are less likely to get caught?

IMO, two possibilities: It could mean more are doping in countries that have a high offender rate (i.e., the more that dope - the more that will get caught). Or it could imply that better and more OOC testing has occurred in a particular country that has caught the dopers by surprise. Russia, currently banned as a nation, had an extremely high offender rate (numerous doping positives & 60 + ABP suspensions - leaps & bounds over any other nation). This shouldn't be surprising at all given their State-sponsored doping program where virtually everyone was doping. That being said, there were quite of few of their athletes that didn't get caught over their careers.

Kenya, OTOH, has had dozens of doping busts over the last several years (mostly IC?) but things really ramped up his year with four (4) ABP provisional suspensions over a period of a few months (Chepkirui, Chepchirchir, Rutto, Kiptum). Plus there were a couple of doping positives this year and one refusal which is an automatic 4 yr ban (Kendagor).

So, has the number of dopers increased in Kenya this year or with the opening the PLK lab in Nairobi last year, has testing improved and better enforcement of the ABP?

Curious: What would be some examples of a sophisticated doping program? Are you referring to substances or methods?

I don't think that life ban is the best idea. Me favorite paul voulter Piotr Lisek few years ago (in 2013) got 6months ban for drinking energetic drink. There was some ingredient that was forbidden. He said before that that he drank it but nobody told him that's forbidden. This year he made over 6 meters. Do you really think he should get life ban in 2013?

Alll wrote:

Now this is getting out of hand! wrote:

Now you're pretending to be Polish? Do you really hate where you are from?

No, I love my country. And I'm always happy when athletes like: Henryk Szost, Adam Kszczot, Marcin Lewandowski, Mateusz Borkowski make a succes. But I don't when people hate and say stupid/false things about others. I've read on this forum that Ryan Hall is doping, Julien Wanders is doping, Marcin Lewandowski is doping, Eliud Kipchoge is doping and so many stupid stuff that I can't agree with

This guy isn't El K, he's a bit less pompous than Kenny although he's equally as whiny.

El K does a really bad acting job when he gets annoyed, you can always tell it's him. (I would hazard a guess his 'ghost' is already haunting this thread like the funny little poltergimp that he is.)

I see no one was willing to take up your offer: "Show me where Al Jazeera uncovers doping among leading Kenyan athletes. Seriously, show me." I guess you could play around with the definition of "among" to make it true, as in the masked dopers training "among" the leading Kenyans. We could extend this offer -- Hajo Seppelt has done a half dozen reports on doping in Kenya. Can anyone: "Show me where (Hajo Seppelt) uncovers doping among leading Kenyan athletes. Seriously, show me." For example Seppelt had direct access to Kisorio, who was cooperating in the hopes of a reduced sentence -- what did he uncover? I was hoping then to get the name of his supplier, or some details emerging from digging deeper implicating with specificity other athletes or groups or managers or coaches or doctors or pharmacists or government, as a result of "uncovering". It's not a question of agreeing or disagreeing with the report, but first identifying, with specificity, what these reports actually uncover about doping among leading Kenyans to justify the sensational headline. Here are my take aways: - Westerners promising money can find doctors and pharmacists willing to take their money - Showing it is possible to dope in Kenya, is not the same as "uncovering doping among leading Kenyans" - Many athletes "believe" doping is necessary to compete - Many pharmacists and doctors see an opportunity to exploit Kenya athletes for a cut of the winnings I think no one doubts that wannabe athletes accept the risk of doping, even in Kenya, based on some future promise of prize money.

Clutching at straws now wrote:

Nothing is uncovered here. It's shoddy journalism. Who is the 'runner' admitting to doping? Why is the doctor's face blanked out? How do we know it's EPO? Pathetic.

The bigger question is how come the Brits, particularly certain Scots, are now competing with and beating some of the supposed doping Kenyans? Must be the Irn bru, the haggis, and the penchant for tweeting about body image and menstruation that makes them worldbeaters.

Where's there's smoke, there's fire. If I see X country dominate in any sport and they start getting popped for doping bust at a abnormally high rate. I'm going think there's a lot more, as pest control people say, if you see one, there's many more unseen. Combine this with the news reports of how easy it is to get dope and the minimal testing controls. You're a fool if you don't think those countries don't dope more than others.

Alll wrote:

I don't think that life ban is the best idea. Me favorite paul voulter Piotr Lisek few years ago (in 2013) got 6months ban for drinking energetic drink. There was some ingredient that was forbidden. He said before that that he drank it but nobody told him that's forbidden. This year he made over 6 meters. Do you really think he should get life ban in 2013?

Yes. He should. Lisek tested positive for methylhexanamine, a banned stimulant. Even if you believe his story, (i.e. that the methylhexanamine was found in an energy drink and he wasn’t just taking injecting himself with it), then it is his responsibility to know what’s in the drink. Look at the label to see if anything is on WADA’s banned list. Not rocket science.

LoneStarXC wrote:

Alll wrote:

I don't think that life ban is the best idea. Me favorite paul voulter Piotr Lisek few years ago (in 2013) got 6months ban for drinking energetic drink. There was some ingredient that was forbidden. He said before that that he drank it but nobody told him that's forbidden. This year he made over 6 meters. Do you really think he should get life ban in 2013?

Yes. He should. Lisek tested positive for methylhexanamine, a banned stimulant. Even if you believe his story, (i.e. that the methylhexanamine was found in an energy drink and he wasn’t just taking injecting himself with it), then it is his responsibility to know what’s in the drink. Look at the label to see if anything is on WADA’s banned list. Not rocket science.

And then he jumped 5,30m...

After 7years he jumps 6m. Why do you want to ruin someone career because of sth like that

Alll wrote:

LoneStarXC wrote:

Yes. He should. Lisek tested positive for methylhexanamine, a banned stimulant. Even if you believe his story, (i.e. that the methylhexanamine was found in an energy drink and he wasn’t just taking injecting himself with it), then it is his responsibility to know what’s in the drink. Look at the label to see if anything is on WADA’s banned list. Not rocket science.

And then he jumped 5,30m...

After 7years he jumps 6m. Why do you want to ruin someone career because of sth like that

BS doping excuses have no place in our sport.