Who loves the French?

All this bravado and ridicule of the French is pretty amusing when you consider the glorious military victories by the U.S. in the 30 years since it -- like France -- was sent packing by those little yellow people in Vietnam:

Grenada

Panama

Iraq

Haiti

Afghanistan (and then only against 1 religious faction)

The combined GDP of those countries probably doesn't even equal the net worth of Bill Gates alone.

Not exactly profiles in courage.

The above list also debunks the notion that the U.S. never attacks without provocation. How much of an imminent threat were Panama and Haiti? And the U.S. has been concocting incidents to justify attacks at least since the Maine was blown up to start Spanish-American War.

1. "The solution to this war is peace not war." Well green hornet, since 1998 when the inspectors were kicked out what has the UN done to disarm Saddam. Answer, whatever it was, was ineffective. Hornet, you'll keep drawing your lines in the sand, but you'll never back them up. With your plan, we'll be here another 12 years and Saddam will still not be disarmed.

2. It would appear that you're saying the US is doing this for the oil. So, the French have no vested interest in Iraqi oil. The French, who are owed a ton of money by the current Iraqi government, don't have any alterier motives? The French, who get more Iraqi oil than the US?

3. Israel was given to the Jews by British after 6 million of them were killed in Nazi Germany. The West Bank and Gazi was taken by Israel after the third war started by Arabs against Israel. Do your history, then post, you idiot.

Dav I think that was a misunderstanding. Seriously I read the post and we basically agree on the Palestinian chronology of things. I got fired up because I know a lot of Palestinian and the horror stories of what the Jews do to them. Werid huh they are do what to Palestinians what Hitler did to them. The oppressed becomes the oppressor. But dude next time don't call people out, without anything on them, very uncool.

ok time for more history for you dav. Is it not true that the Israel motive i.e the manifest destiny I mentioned is to have an Israeli state in the ancient land traced back to the temple of Solomon. The reason why they want that land is because the Dome of the ROck is believed to be the site of the ancient temple of solomon before it was destroyed. So the Israeli occupation which I was referring to in the eariler post was in fact "gods people" doing what the want by taking the land. Any arguments. Jezzzz must I spell everthing out for you Dav.

hornet, you are either an idiot, really naive, or ignorant.

Flagpole wrote:

?he(Saddam) is already is in violation of all the rules imposed upon him by the UN after the Gulf War.?

Do you disagree or think that is circumstantial?

Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel. There is no debate to this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

You realize Iraq people are starving but Saddam spends money to support the families of suicide bombers?

?but the main motive is to get oil from the towel heads?

Are you serious? Did the US steal the Kuwait oil? If the US main goal was to get Iraqi oil, it would be much cheaper to go France?s route and buy it and end the sanctions. The primary goal is to remove the chemical/biological weapons from Iraq to remove the threat of Iraq from its neighbors.

Since diplomacy hasn?t worked to remove the weapons, an unfortunate alternative of war is required.

?Werid huh they are do what to Palestinians what Hitler did to them.?

The Israelis are far from perfect but to compare the Israelis conflict with the Palestinians to Hitler?s treatment of Jews is a ludicrous and makes me sick. I don?t see ovens in the West Bank.

Under Oslo, Palestinians had self rule for much of the West Bank until the current uprising. The Israelis offered to create a Palestinian state on 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza in Jan 2001. The Palestinians rejected all the Israeli peace proposals and turned to violence. As a reaction to the violence, Israelis elected a thug as a leader, Sharon, to protect them. They believe the Palestinians leaders aren?t interested in peaceful co-existence and until new Palestinian leadership emerges they aren?t going to continue to wait around defenseless.

If the Israelis wanted the entire West Bank, they could have annexed it into Israel long ago . They aren?t interested in making it part of Israel. Most Israelis would gladly give up most of the West Bank and Gaza for peace if the Palestinian leaders sincerely came in peace and made a sincere effort to curtail the terrorism from radical groups like HAMAS, Islamic Jihad and others that call for the destruction of Israel.

TMR and DAV you guys are putting a lot of words in my mouth. Which I did say or was construed the wrong way. I call a truce. And Dav you started this one, so I'm going to end it no more malicaous post.

actually the first post about the Franch was pretty darned funny.

The Foundation Middle East Peace website, a pro-Palestinian website, shows a map of the final Israeli peace proposal offer.

http://www.fmep.org/maps/2001/taba.jpg

I am not telling a "Bullshit fairy tale." You make baseless claims and need to educate yourself before you type. It is not the Jews side against your side.

No I am not Jewish.

I suggest you read more about Hitler. You obviously don't know much about the atrocities Nazi Germany committed under his leadership.

Palestinians deserve to be treated fairly. However, claiming Jews are treating Palestinians like Hitler treated Jews is wrong on so many accounts and will get you nowhere in an honest debate. Israel is not attempting to commit genocide.

Arab Israelis can vote and hold office in Israel. There are discrimination problems and this does need serious work.

Torture and unintentional deaths of Palestinian youth DOES NOT equate to Hitler. Nonetheless, it is wrong and Israel should do all it can to reduce deaths to innocent civilians.

And Palestinians should stop murdering innocent Israelis via suicide bombings or indiscriminately shooting of people on the street.

If the US sole interest was stealing oil, why didn't the US steal Kuwait's oil after the first Gulf War? If the US wants to steal oil, why doesn't the US invade Saudi Arabia? They have the largest proven oil reserves and would be a pushover in a war. Your position defies logic.

Hornet, you keep bringing up this temple of Solomon. That's just your convenient anti-semetic window dressing on the problem. Here are some facts. Perhaps you'd like to address these.

1. Did neighboring Arabs start 3 wars with Israel, including the 1948 war which kicked off soon after Israel was conceived?

2. The land that you speak was Jordanian. They don't want it back, because they hate the Palestinians even more. As a matter of fact, they've massacre tons of Palestinians in their day without being prevoked.

3. Jordan lost the land when they attacked Israel in 1967. In my book if you start a war, don't cry when you lose something.

Hornet, these are historical facts. I doubt you'll address them because they don't conveniently fit into your anti-semetic mindset.

Dumb Fuck (a.k.a Six Pack)-

The land was Jordanian. Learn your history, asshole. Interestly, Jordan, doesn't want it back. They, like their other Arab brotherin, don't want to deal with the Palestinians refugees that they created when they started the 1948 war.

TMR read this

http://www.cactus48.com/intifada2000.html

My claims are not baseless, I've have first hand experience with these bitch ass Israelis. Fucking have you ever been locked up for 8 mths just because stupid Israeli police think you are a terrorist. You just sit there with you article and history books. Fucking this is real life bitch. Didn't you know that history is written by the victorious. Ok killing women, children, and killing little kids is not enough for you then I don't know why I'm even arguing with you. By the way the oil things I've said it three times it's a scenario. Why doesn't Bush kick N Korea's ass first they are definetly more dangerous than the Iraqees.

Even though you are a prick I like you Dav because you are very divisive. Are you a lawyer to answer your first point this segment is lifted from

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/partition_plan.html

"The Peel Commission in 1937 concluded the only logical solution to resolving the contradictory aspirations of the Jews and Arabs was partition of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states. The Arabs rejected the plan because it would have forced them to accept the creation of a Jewish state and required some Palestinians to live under "Jewish domination." The Zionists opposed the Peel Plan's boundaries because they would have been confined to little more than a ghetto of 5,000 out of the 26,700 square kilometers remaining in Palestine. Nevertheless, the Zionists decided to negotiate with the British, while the Arabs refused to consider any compromises."

How would you like it if forigners can and over run you country suddenly form a state and tell you what to do. I guess you are just a cool blooded historian who just what to get you facts right. Man history is meant to tell us something not win battles on message boards. Part 3 coming up.

oh yeah TMR shows you have no knowledge about how the real world works. The US does have proven reserves. But there in this world happens to be something called cash. Cash is king. Very expensive to drill in Alaska. Very cheap to buy from Saudis pennies on the dollar in fact. Why go drill unless you are a tool like TMR

Happy, since you are having fun with this, here's a question for you: what possible concessions do you think can be made by Israel that would ensure the security of it's territory and the safety of it's citizenry?

What can they do that would stop brainwashed youth to load themselves up with debilitating shrapnel and seek out concentrations of unarmed women and children to detonate? What can they do to change the beliefs of thousands who call for their ultimate destruction and the anihilation of their people?

Until you can come up with answers to these questions, it comes off as awfully close-minded to be unilaterally blaiming Israel for problems in the middle east.

happy hornet wrote:

oh yeah TMR shows you have no knowledge about how the real world works. The US does have proven reserves. But there in this world happens to be something called cash. Cash is king. Very expensive to drill in Alaska. Very cheap to buy from Saudis pennies on the dollar in fact. Why go drill unless you are a tool like TMR

If you are going to push the "cheap oil" theory, then please explain the economics of sending over 200,000 heavily armed troops halfway around the world at a cost of billions and billions of dollars makes better economic sense than lifting sanctions and allowing US companies to do what they have proven to be very good at in past years: signing contracts with various parts of the world to exploit their natural resources.

Ok Dav you said,

"Jordan lost the land when they attacked Israel in 1967. In my book if you start a war, don't cry when you lose something."

"The land was Jordanian. Learn your history, asshole. Interestly, Jordan, doesn't want it back."

wait let me get this straight you said Jordan is bitching about losing something. And next post you say Jordan doesn't want it back. I suppose we are taking about the same thing, why the inconsistency. I'm not saying anything you answer. I'm through behaving like you, and being a assuming bastard.

damn dude I feel you pain on these youths going over and dying and coming back with gulf war syndrome. Your guess is as good as mine. Actually I don't want to mention anything. See how bashed I was when I spoke my thoughs. People just ain't hearing it. They just want accurate dates down to the sec like Dav. When the whole gist of the story passes then. That is why we never get any where on this issue. Lest just say just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

happy hornet wrote:

Ok Dav you said,

"Jordan lost the land when they attacked Israel in 1967. In my book if you start a war, don't cry when you lose something."

"The land was Jordanian. Learn your history, asshole. Interestly, Jordan, doesn't want it back."

wait let me get this straight you said Jordan is bitching about losing something. And next post you say Jordan doesn't want it back. I suppose we are taking about the same thing, why the inconsistency. I'm not saying anything you answer. I'm through behaving like you, and being a assuming bastard.

I fail to see where it's said Jordan is bitching about loosing something. They and Egypt are the only two countries to have attacked Israel that have bothered to sign a peace treaty. It is the Palestinians (a people who didn't exist as a defined entity prior to the middle of the 20th century) who want the land. Given the Jordanians have kept hundreds of thousands of them locked up in camps for over 50 years, I don't think they care too much about them.

happy hornet wrote:

damn dude I feel you pain on these youths going over and dying and coming back with gulf war syndrome. Your guess is as good as mine. Actually I don't want to mention anything. See how bashed I was when I spoke my thoughs. People just ain't hearing it. They just want accurate dates down to the sec like Dav. When the whole gist of the story passes then. That is why we never get any where on this issue. Lest just say just because it's legal doesn't make it right.

Pardon me for my obvious lack of intellect, but I have no clue what you are saying here.