Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Golgi Body wrote:

Pretty damning, if you ask me.

No one asked you.

0/10 - ScamWatcheroo.

2019 wrote:

Golgi Body wrote:

Pretty damning, if you ask me.

No one asked you.

0/10 - ScamWatcheroo.

Frank quit responding to every post against.

Why were there never any controversy when Ed Whitlock or Gene Dykes ran their marathons but with this guy there is multiple issues. Lack of photos, unbelievable splits, wearing his bib to the side of his shorts, wearing a hat, no runner in the race coming to his defense, lack of shorter races to back up times. When you add it all up you can’t give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm just doing a little internet searching but what really jumps out to me is that he started the 2018 Long Beach marathon with a gun/clock time of 48 seconds. The 2017 race he didn't cross the start line for 2:44. In the 2015 race, it took him 4:11 to cross the start line.

That seems a little out of the ordinary.

Is he doing a charity where he raises money by how many runners he passes?

Roderick Powell wrote:

Maybe hacking into the bib computer. Still asking alot.

Impossible without the timing company aiding and abetting

I just spent an hour plus after googling the Kip Litton “mystery”. Absolutely shocking how deja vu like. The thinking, theorizing..so spot on. The behaviors, the red flags, the “why’s. I have actually found someone who in theory could be an accomplice. His name is Ali Ansan . He missed 4 mats this year at the LA Marathon. (The 40 k mat was missed by half the field of course) So 3 for sure. Ran 2:52. Last year ran well over 4 hours. Runs LA often when Frank has run too. This “theory” that it may not be a coincidence would only apply to LA. This guy may have run fast a couple times when he was younger in New York. But seems to have suddenly gotten fast this year. He was even in a 10 k that I ran on super bowl Sunday in Redondo Beach . ( seems he just got under 40). Similar speed to Frank? I don’t know what the truth is here. Sincerely, I would be sick if this turned into a Millie Vanillie thing. Also another theory was bicycling. Something Frank is good at. Pictures are not as good as videos in analyzing a runner’s cadence and stride length. Thus their speed if maintained throughout the race for the most part. That would be helpful . Their are many reasons that in spite of the way this looks, it is hard to believe. So, I think before we pronounce judgment we better be sure. Only one way to for sure do that. Find a 2:30 or 2:40 marathoner that can jog behind him for a marathon. That would answer the riddle once and for all. I hope he is what I’ve always thought. A gifted runner who believes with hard but fun and rewarding work, who with smart training and patience and diet could continue to improve. It is written that we have a good 10 years to make progress no matter when we start. If Frank is the kind of person I’ve thought he must be, he would laugh off the suspicions and show us what he can do.

I appreciate your research, and that of others but would it be more realistic to compare Ed's record setting race vs Gene Dykes' Jacksonville vs. Frank's splits? That 18:34 and last 5k of 18:30 for Frank are very difficult for us oldtimers to comprehend.

Fred Gwynne wrote:

Why were there never any controversy when Ed Whitlock or Gene Dykes ran their marathons but with this guy there is multiple issues. Lack of photos, unbelievable splits, wearing his bib to the side of his shorts, wearing a hat, no runner in the race coming to his defense, lack of shorter races to back up times. When you add it all up you can’t give him the benefit of the doubt.

You forgot the delayed start. Wasn't that part of ole Kip Litton's M.O.? I believe Kip used a bike and covered his number with a jacket, etc.. It's been a long time since that thread and I don't really want to revisit that nonsense.

Just looked at his pics, and frankly he doesn't pass the eye test for 2:53 guy. More like 3:45-4:00. Suspicion is snowballing here. Credibility trending negative.

Absolutely right. Especially the last 5k split in 18.30, 6 mins. pace, when all other 2.52-2.53 guys around him are running 7 minutes pace. It would be like a 2.10 marathoner suddenly running 13.30 splits at two different points in the marathon, when his overall pace was 15.20-15.40...so improbable, I would say impossible.

Some ways for Frank to show his good faith.

1. Enter a flat/fast 5k, and run 18.30 or faster. Similarly, enter a flat, fast 10k and run 40.00 or faster. Both those chronos would give Frank more credibility, but I seriously doubt he could run those times -even with fresh legs.

This is all very sad because were Frank to be proved to be a cheater -he would not only lose credibility as a physician, but also tarnish his reputation permanently, as coach at Loyola H.S. -where he is revered as a demi God coach.

Actually, hope Frank has good answers to all of this, because he seems like a nice guy.

Ghost in China

Jacksonville's results provided different splits: 5k/10k/halfway/20mi

Gene Dykes (2:54:23): 20:25, 20:44 for the first 2 5k splits. Halfway was 1:26:56, which means his two halves were 1:26:56/1:27:27. 20mi was 2:12:47, which means his last ~10k (plus a couple of hundredths) was a 41:36 (compared to a 1st 10k of 41:09). So by the looks of it, a very evenly paced race.

Honestly, it's silly to even suggest that a fairly high-quality marathon record could be set without good pacing. Of course, it's technically possible, but if somebody can point to a world-best-type performance that was run with 2-to-6-minute swings in time per 5k, I'd be shocked. At the very least, it would suggest that Meza was capable of a far faster time with decent pacing.

Golgi Body wrote:

Jacksonville's results provided different splits: 5k/10k/halfway/20mi

Gene Dykes (2:54:23): 20:25, 20:44 for the first 2 5k splits. Halfway was 1:26:56, which means his two halves were 1:26:56/1:27:27. 20mi was 2:12:47, which means his last ~10k (plus a couple of hundredths) was a 41:36 (compared to a 1st 10k of 41:09). So by the looks of it, a very evenly paced race.

Honestly, it's silly to even suggest that a fairly high-quality marathon record could be set without good pacing. Of course, it's technically possible, but if somebody can point to a world-best-type performance that was run with 2-to-6-minute swings in time per 5k, I'd be shocked. At the very least, it would suggest that Meza was capable of a far faster time with decent pacing.

The hallmark of successful senior athletes is their pacing ability. Bouncing pace around is just not an option at our age.

YMMV wrote:

Golgi Body wrote:

Jacksonville's results provided different splits: 5k/10k/halfway/20mi

Gene Dykes (2:54:23): 20:25, 20:44 for the first 2 5k splits. Halfway was 1:26:56, which means his two halves were 1:26:56/1:27:27. 20mi was 2:12:47, which means his last ~10k (plus a couple of hundredths) was a 41:36 (compared to a 1st 10k of 41:09). So by the looks of it, a very evenly paced race.

Honestly, it's silly to even suggest that a fairly high-quality marathon record could be set without good pacing. Of course, it's technically possible, but if somebody can point to a world-best-type performance that was run with 2-to-6-minute swings in time per 5k, I'd be shocked. At the very least, it would suggest that Meza was capable of a far faster time with decent pacing.

The hallmark of successful senior athletes is their pacing ability. Bouncing pace around is just not an option at our age.

The 25 mins 5k, preceded by the 20mins split and followed by the 18.34, in succession makes zero sense ! Why would any experienced marathon guy want to run and jog like that!

This situation needs to be explained -hopefully soon.

Ghost in China

A 37:56 10k in the middle of his marathon, after a 25min 5k? Someone needs to work on their biking/running transitions...

I noticed that in 2012, Meza ran the Surf City USA Marathon. He was 63 at the time and ran 3:09:27 (chip time). That race appears to have had 4 timing mats, at 3mi, 6mi, 12.2mi, and 20.9mi. His first two 3-mile segments were run in a metronomic 21:03 and 21:05. Then he missed the 12.2 timing mat (!!) and showed up again at 20.9 having slowed slightly to 7:09 pace.

Missing that timing mat wouldn't mean much to me, except that he has been identified as having a tendency to miss timing mats. I checked 10 men and 10 women finishers of the same race, and none of them missed any mats.

That was over 6 years ago - interesting that he has been at it for so long.

Golgi Body wrote:

I noticed that in 2012, Meza ran the Surf City USA Marathon. He was 63 at the time and ran 3:09:27 (chip time). That race appears to have had 4 timing mats, at 3mi, 6mi, 12.2mi, and 20.9mi. His first two 3-mile segments were run in a metronomic 21:03 and 21:05. Then he missed the 12.2 timing mat (!!) and showed up again at 20.9 having slowed slightly to 7:09 pace.

Missing that timing mat wouldn't mean much to me, except that he has been identified as having a tendency to miss timing mats. I checked 10 men and 10 women finishers of the same race, and none of them missed any mats.

That was over 6 years ago - interesting that he has been at it for so long.

"Meza The Missa"

Golgi Body wrote:

I noticed that in 2012, Meza ran the Surf City USA Marathon. He was 63 at the time and ran 3:09:27 (chip time). That race appears to have had 4 timing mats, at 3mi, 6mi, 12.2mi, and 20.9mi. His first two 3-mile segments were run in a metronomic 21:03 and 21:05. Then he missed the 12.2 timing mat (!!) and showed up again at 20.9 having slowed slightly to 7:09 pace.

Missing that timing mat wouldn't mean much to me, except that he has been identified as having a tendency to miss timing mats. I checked 10 men and 10 women finishers of the same race, and none of them missed any mats.

That was over 6 years ago - interesting that he has been at it for so long.

Missing that many timing mats for sure is a giant red flag. I work with Physicians. Most are arrogant dishonest pricks. Hope this cheater gets caught red handed.

Some physicians are 'dishonest' and some garner almost universal praise, as is the case with Frank, who has one a lot for the Latino community in East L.A.

What is really sad, in this escalating apparent cheating (possible/likely) scandal, is that Meza, if found to have cheated, will throw his entire career, medical and running, down the tubes. Not worth it, by any stretch.

I still hope Frank, or others, can show that Frank's split are an anomaly, but this looks difficult.

Very sad case here, looking worse as more partial evidence comes in.

Ghost in China

Sorry typo - should read "who has done a lot for the Latino community in East L.A."

Sources say he even treats some Latinos free of charge -those without medical insurance.

So, Frank has saintly qualities too.

If Frank reads these threads, maybe he could give his explanation of these timing anomalies.

In summation, at this point-either Frank is a phenomenal outlier (unlikely, but possible....) or he has taken shortcuts to his outstanding age 65+ and 70+ record times.

How long, if ever, will it take to get closure in this sad affair ?

Ghost in China

OK enough of the histrionics. His medical career would suffer no ill effect if it is shown he is cheating. Most of his patients would never hear about it and even if they do, most wouldn't care.

Now, let's get Bob Mueller on this stat and we should have our answer in a couple years.