There's plenty of talent in US distance running, but it's not being channeled to elite level because.....
Well because there is so much competition these days, so the up and coming generationt of top US distance runners....
Can't afford to give up their day job.
real worldisms wrote:
There's plenty of talent in US distance running, but it's not being channeled to elite level because.....
Well because there is so much competition these days, so the up and coming generationt of top US distance runners....
Can't afford to give up their day job.
Correct. Same in the UK.
If the prize money for becoming diamond league champions was $1 million, and equally high prize money for minor places and races on the European circuits, then there would be equal incentive for European and American runners to try and go for it.
As it is, you have to work extraordinarily hard to earn similar money or less to what you'd get if you went to university and got a graduate job, or even just worked in McDonalds. For a Kenyan from Iten where the average salary is a few dollars a day, there is much greater incentive in running.
Plenty kids give up education/other work to pursue football in the UK.
heisbetter wrote:
How many 18-22 year olds, say: "man, i can't wait to do the marathon!"??
Nobody.
Dozens of Africans that age must do that. As did Alberto.
ex-runner wrote:
Plenty kids give up education/other work to pursue football in the UK.
And so few will make it. But in the UK footy is a working class sport. Running however is for posh kids and it shouldn't be.
But the best distance runner in my club comes from a footballing family, so he broke the mould, as others should too. Mo Farah is also not a posh twat.
evolutionofeasyruns wrote:
I've been trying to figure out why the marathon in the U.S is struggling to produce sub 2:12 runners. It's well known that Galen Rupp averages 5:20-5:30 pace on his easy runs.
I read about all these other U.S marathon runners and they only average 6:30-7:00 pace on their easy days. I'm starting to believe Galen's easy run pace compared to the rest of the pro U.S marathoners is a major reason why Galen is so much better than everyone else in the U.S.
Anyone feel that way?
He has a coach who has been with him since high school, he has an incredible capacity for a heavy training workload, his coach knows how to maximize his ability. They executed a multi year plan of competition & training to get where they needed to be to run world class marathons.
The US has a lack of marathon coaching talent, the culture of US athletes has become complacent with being the top American as their badge of honor.
Given the current trend, I don't see US marathoners getting faster in the near future.
Nobody runs 5:20 pace on easy runs. That’s a ridiculous statement. The reason that he’s so much better than everyone else is because he’s more talented, and subsequently can handle more.
Rupp runs between 5:20 and 6 flat on easy runs. His MP is in the 4:40s, so he's going an average of 1:00 slower than MP. Malmo's training logs showed that he was running something like 5:30s and 5:40s most of the time on easy runs, and he was a 2:11 guy. He was going about 40 seconds slower than MP.
Salazar focuses heavily on maximum recovery to allow for maximum workouts (alter g, pool runs, ice baths, soft trails, and so on), so it just may be that Rupp is not only running a lot slower on easy runs but is actually quite well recovered for them compared to many athletes.
The reason why he is so fast compared to other Americans is simple, 10k ability. If you look at the our small bundle of 2:12 runners, a real problem is there 10k speed. Breaking 28 minutes for the 10k is almost vital to go under 2:10 in the marathon.
Shearers wrote:
The reason why he is so fast compared to other Americans is simple, 10k ability. If you look at the our small bundle of 2:12 runners, a real problem is there 10k speed. Breaking 28 minutes for the 10k is almost vital to go under 2:10 in the marathon.
Wilson Kipsang and Denis Kimmeto 10k pr begs to differ.
real worldisms wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
Plenty kids give up education/other work to pursue football in the UK.
And so few will make it. But in the UK footy is a working class sport. Running however is for posh kids and it shouldn't be.
But the best distance runner in my club comes from a footballing family, so he broke the mould, as others should too. Mo Farah is also not a posh twat.
Running is a numbers game. Every Kenyan doesn't make it. You need participation to find talent
Ever heard of Denis kimmeto wrote:
Shearers wrote:
The reason why he is so fast compared to other Americans is simple, 10k ability. If you look at the our small bundle of 2:12 runners, a real problem is there 10k speed. Breaking 28 minutes for the 10k is almost vital to go under 2:10 in the marathon.
Wilson Kipsang and Denis Kimmeto 10k pr begs to differ.
We both know they could've broken 27 when they ran their WRs.
Rupp's lungs might feel 5:20 is easy, but his legs sure as hell don't.
ex-runner said: I could have thought of much better Kenyan marathoners to make your point with.
Kenyans not called Kipchoge who were faster than Galen Rupp in 2018:
2:04:06 Lawrence Cherono, Amsterdam 21 Oct
2:04:53 Matthew Kipkoech Kisorio, Valencia 02 Dec
2:05:21 Emmanuel Saina, Buenos Aires 23 Sep
2:05:22 Nobert Kigen, Valencia 02 Dec
2:05:30 Dickson Chumba, Tokyo 25 Feb
2:05:44 Kenneth Kiprop Kipkemoi, Rotterdam 08 Apr
2:05:38 Laban Korir, Rotterdam 08 Apr
cheers
cotton shirt wrote:
ex-runner said: I could have thought of much better Kenyan marathoners to make your point with.
Kenyans not called Kipchoge who were faster than Galen Rupp in 2018:
2:04:06 Lawrence Cherono, Amsterdam 21 Oct
2:04:53 Matthew Kipkoech Kisorio, Valencia 02 Dec
2:05:21 Emmanuel Saina, Buenos Aires 23 Sep
2:05:22 Nobert Kigen, Valencia 02 Dec
2:05:30 Dickson Chumba, Tokyo 25 Feb
2:05:44 Kenneth Kiprop Kipkemoi, Rotterdam 08 Apr
2:05:38 Laban Korir, Rotterdam 08 Apr
cheers
You might share this with Scott Fauble. On a recent Citius Mag podcast, he was bemoaning the lack of respect for him and the rest of 2:12 Americans. He even said that if the NYC was scored like a cross country meet, the USA would've won.
The race in America had a bunch of American scorers?! Ah yes, Scott Fauble, a great American mind of distance running.
Well, Scotty, your name is in the bright lights now, you’re on letsrun, pal!
At least you got some free shoes.
real worldisms wrote:
There's plenty of talent in US distance running, but it's not being channeled to elite level because.....
Well because there is so much competition these days, so the up and coming generationt of top US distance runners....
Can't afford to give up their day job.
Geez I can't believe it got to page 5 to get the answer the OP was obviously angling for. The title premise is, of course, ridiculous. Why on Earth would anyone go through the years of grind to run 2:07-2:11 these days? Japanese do because they are heroes in Japan. In the US all you get is insults on LR. We get 2:12 guys because truly talented guys do's have to work hard to get it, and the Jared Wards of this world can sneak impressive looking positions in weak races.
Real answer is that Americans do not race enough, most of the pros should be racing at least 4-6 marathons per year. If you F up at one, you'll learn quicker. More you swing at the bat the more chances you'll have at a home run.
blort wrote:
Chris Derrick has run 13:08/27:30 (and probably could improve on that 10k time).
Suguru Osako has run 13:08/27:38 (and probably could improve on that 10k time). He has also run 2:05:50.
Yuta Shitara has run 13:34/27:41 and 2:06:11.
HIroto Inoue has run 13:38/28:08 and 2:06:54.
These guys are not sub-13/sub-27 runners like Rupp is. Yet their marathon times are so much faster than any current American marathoner other than Rupp. What are they doing right?
The Land of Rising Sun. wrote:
blort wrote:
Chris Derrick has run 13:08/27:30 (and probably could improve on that 10k time).
Suguru Osako has run 13:08/27:38 (and probably could improve on that 10k time). He has also run 2:05:50.
Yuta Shitara has run 13:34/27:41 and 2:06:11.
HIroto Inoue has run 13:38/28:08 and 2:06:54.
These guys are not sub-13/sub-27 runners like Rupp is. Yet their marathon times are so much faster than any current American marathoner other than Rupp. What are they doing right?
The Japanese run by kilometers, Americans run by miles. The Japanese mental target is 3:00 km vs the American mental target of 5:00 miles.
ex-runner said: If the prize money for becoming diamond league champions was $1 million, and equally high prize money for minor places and races on the European circuits, then there would be equal incentive for European and American runners to try and go for it.
I read your comment just before going out for my long run, and spent the entire hour and a half thinking about what you said and I've decided that it doesn't make any sense.
I get that for a dirt-poor Kenyan potato farmer the idea of going to Zurich to run in a race and getting paid $5000 will seem like an attractive proposition, particularly if all you have to do is run round in circles for less than fifteen minutes to please some mad Mazunga.
I get that.
money isn't the only reason the Kenyans are good, genetics and altitude play some part in it, but I get that money is a big motivation for them.
but transferring that thinking onto over fed white western college boys won't work.
but that does of course depend on what exactly you are trying to say.
are you claiming that almost any one of the 2:12 guys could run under 2:10, but there is not enough money on offer so they're waiting for a better offer.
or are you saying that we have a dozen or more groups of professional or semi-professional athletes with six to eight men in each group, and the sole focus of their entire existence is to run 26 miles faster than their peers. they monitor and control every single thing they eat and drink, they read voraciously anything they can get their hands on about the physiology and biology of human motion, they sleep in altitude controlled tents, they obsess over the tiniest of details like how to tie their shoe laces and whether they should be sniffing smoked goat semen for breakfast, then they get up at dawn to run 130 miles a week for years on end but they haven't run 2:06 yet because they're not motivated.
yeah, right.
try again.
westerners do not run principally for money. in his entire running career Bill Rodgers won the grand total of $76,985 dollars. that didn't stop him running 2:09. and it is, incidentally, Bill's birthday today so happy birthday Bill Rodgers.
cheers.