I have 23.0 200m speed can I run 1:44

cecil9sm wrote:

23 will only get you 49 at the quarter. The classic early 880 guys who were under 1:45, Peter Snell and Jim Ryan were sub 48 which means their 200s had to have been low 22 s and probably 22 flat.

I don't think your first sentence is correct. Some 400m runners have a better conversion than this:

200m wind reading in brackets

Iwan Thomas 20.87 (1.9), 44.36 (+2.62)

Jamie Baulch 20.84 (2.0), 44.57 (+2.89)

Kriss Akabusi 21.22, 44.93 (+2.49)

David Grindley 20.89 (2.5w), 44.47 (+2.69)

Du'aine Ladejo 20.96 (1.5) , 44.66 (+2.74)

Derek Redmond 21.06 (-0.2), 44.50 (+2.38)

I think 2.5 is realistic for middle distance runners. Maybe even 2.

23

48-48.5

1:44 (52-52.5)

3:26-3:30 (55-56)

3:46>3:50 wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

How is Webb old? Wasn't he born in the 1980s?!

Gray would never call himself a sub-1:44 guy, he'd call himself sub 1:43, and the only clean one at that, except maybe Solomon.

It is ALAN MF WEBB!! There’s a coaching video of him and he mentions bringing a bigger knife. I think it’s fairly recent.

“Jamie pull that up”

Bad Wigins wrote:

Old Man 2 Lapper wrote:

Thanks! It makes sense to me. Glad to have people like you on here giving us your perspective. Definitely NOT a Brit and happy about that. Hope to see you on another thread being so positive!

So, not Cram, like I expected. Not an American either, we don't have sayings about which knife to bring to a fight. We say "don't bring a knife to a gunfight."

But doesn't like Britain, which rules out Canadians. Yet uses grammar that resembles British English.

No Irish, Aussie or New Zealander ever broke 1:44. A German like Schumann or a Norse like Rodahl might have polished enough English to write like that. But I'm thinking more likely a Kenyan.

-> don't like Britain

-> write good British English

-> lots of 1:44 possibilities. too many to bother counting. William Tanui?

fake is always a possibility too.

If Old Man 2 Lapper is real:

1) He is not a former world class 1500m/one mile runner. So many posters are listing their favorite 1500m/ one mile runner.

2) At World Cup/Continental Cup, Olympics and World Championships, this person only raced 800 metres.

3) Old Man 2 Lapper is a sub-47 400m man. He would not look down upon 23.xx 200m for no reason.

4) Old Man 2 Lapper cut his teeth in his youth racing 1/2 mile. Through high school age, he raced 880 yards.

If a real person, possibly James Robinson.

You are correct on all points! Just not the right person. That narrows it quite a bit for the stat guys.

Mark Everett?

Earl Jones?

@statto

I think your conversions are a little generous and might only apply to a very gifted athlete with outstanding endurance. Or one doped to the gills.

Livstrong7 wrote:

@statto

I think your conversions are a little generous and might only apply to a very gifted athlete with outstanding endurance. Or one doped to the gills.

Do you think those 400m runners were doping?

I'm having a hard time believing Walker ran a 22 mid 200mat anytime in his career, unless it was hand times with a rolling start, especially considering his fastest listed 400m was 48.9?

Snell's fastest 440 hand time was 47.9 for a relay leg, which is what 47.6 for 400m? For an open 400m it would be slower, around 48 flat. He was clearly faster than Walker, but I doubt he goes faster than 22.7/ high from blocks, and possibly 22.5 on synthetic.

Ryun never ran a 46 flat on any sort of track. He ran many 440 yd relays in his best years of 66 and 67, and the fastest he managed was 46.9 hand timed, which equates to 46.6 for 400m. That's worth about 47.3 for an open 400m on a cinder track, so maybe 46.6/46.7 on a synthetic one. Interestingly, in Mel Watman's 'Encyclopedia of Track and Field Athletics', Ryun has a listed pb of 21.6 for a 220yd relay leg! That's about 21.4/ 21.5 for a 200m relay leg, which is surely outside 22 for an open 200m from blocks.

Ovett never had concurrent 21.7 and 3:30 ability. He was a teen of 18 when he ran 21.7 ht for 200m, and at the time was capable of 47.5 for 400m. By the time he was capable of 3:30, which I'd say he was from 78 to 83, his 200m speed was no longer as good as 21.7. During that time the fastest 400m ability he showed was 46.8 in a relay from 1979, which equates to around 47.5 open. He actually ran a 22.9 for his Brighton club in the August of 78 (just before winning silver and gold in the European Champs). By the time he was running around 3:30 I'd doubt he could still break 22 flat for 200m, maybe 22.3.

Cram stated in an AW interview at the end of 85 that his fastest 400m time trial was 48.1, and that he'd improved his speed down to be able to run 23 low for 200m with a rolling start. That would suggest no faster than 23.0 from blocks in a race when fresh. That's why I think a peak Walker may have been able to match that over 200m, but be slightly slower than Cram over 400m

Old Man 2 Lapper wrote:

You are correct on all points! Just not the right person. That narrows it quite a bit for the stat guys.

Its not Rodal as someone earlier mentioned. He would've spoken about plyos and hurdle/stair jumpings A LOT

It’s Jose Parilla.

Croze wrote:

Old Man 2 Lapper wrote:

You are correct on all points! Just not the right person. That narrows it quite a bit for the stat guys.

Its not Rodal as someone earlier mentioned. He would've spoken about plyos and hurdle/stair jumpings A LOT

Also, he could be described as sub 1:43

Mark Everett?

Earl Jones?

John Marshall?

James Robinson?

Could actually be Bram Som?

Departing from old man 2 lapper speculation and back to the thread ...

To be a sub 1:44 runner, you need to be able to hit the 400 split in 50 point feeling nice and smooth. You really need 47 speed for that to happen which means 23 won't cut it.

Doubt it.

23 means you're coming from pure speed, at least the way I look at it. The HS kid who was killer at 800 can't necessarily do a good 1600, and rarely a good 3200. Your 800 is 4X your 200. Just like the 3200 is 4X the 800. It's quite rare, and the kids who do this tend to be in small states, or small classes in big states.

I didn't read enough to see your age, but if low college or younger, I doubt it. Older than that? No way.

Okay, read it all.

J Cruz.

Not a former world class 1500/one mile runner wrote:

4) Old Man 2 Lapper cut his teeth in his youth racing 1/2 mile. Through high school age, he raced 880 yards.

If a real person, possibly James Robinson.

old man 2 lapper wrote:

(correct, wrong person, narrows it down etc)

The only thing that would narrow anything down is the 880y thing (how did poster know that?) but not by much, because the field of possibilities is still mostly Kenyans, who also did the yards thing not so long ago, and have more people under 1:44.

Without more info, the odds are om2l is a kenyan or a fake.

observer_of_things wrote:

Departing from old man 2 lapper speculation and back to the thread ...

To be a sub 1:44 runner, you need to be able to hit the 400 split in 50 point feeling nice and smooth. You really need 47 speed for that to happen which means 23 won't cut it.

Interestingly, some of those with less speed ran with more even pace. I don't think it is necessary to feel anything in particular at any particular pace.

Does 1:44 mean sub 1:44?