Is this the beginning of the Professional Strava athlete?
Dominate segments, put up impressive training blocks, and engage in social media. No need to ever win races, or risk being drug tested.
Why risk social media disgrace?
Things happen during actual races. Unexpected things. Even the winners have benefited greatly from things way outside their control, but they are all amazing athletes - Cut these guys some slack!
There is a difference between doing a ton of volume and getting faster. AT dude didn’t get faster after those big weeks. He got more slow endurance.
Walmsley didn’t get faster after those big weeks either.
This was a 20ish hour race not a 41 day race. Supremely fit AT dude wouldnt have faired too well at UTMB with that volume of training either.
Walmsley 14:30 record
Jurek 15:36 (1:06 slower than the best male)
Greenwood 16:47
Jurek 15:36 (1:11 faster than the best female)
The course is fundamentally the same, but weather significantly impacts the times. Walmsley’s record this year had high temps of 106-108 F.
A difference wrote:
There is a difference between doing a ton of volume and getting faster. AT dude didn’t get faster after those big weeks. He got more slow endurance.
Walmsley didn’t get faster after those big weeks either.
This was a 20ish hour race not a 41 day race. Supremely fit AT dude wouldnt have faired too well at UTMB with that volume of training either.
I'd guess that the AT guy is not overtrained at this point though, and probably would have fared decently at UTMB. The overall winning time is 12+ minutes a mile with a lot of climbing and descending which he was super adapted to. Obviously running is necessary for the runnable parts to keep up, but I think he would have done reasonably/exceptionally well for a non-pro runner if he had raced UTMB soon after his AT record.
What I've seen in super hikers, including a couple I know, is that they can get fitter as they go, putting in the largest days at the end if things go well. There is a similar, pretty well-known effect of this fitness improvement in dogs at the long distance sled dog races.
He may have done reasonably well. Depending on his definition of that. I don’t think the Europeans are really worried about this crop of super hikers that are going to come and destroy utmb next year. Because they adapt and keep getting stronger.
I’ll put my money on the 4 minute miler who is great at distance. And then doesn’t do huge, high volume and knock his legs out from underneath himself.
Dude, there's a huge difference between going into a race fitter and with a better personal race strategy vs just needing to finish in case your competition blows up. When I beat someone because they went off course or they were miles ahead of me and blew up, I add them back into the standings in my mind. Maybe you do have a 50% chance to beat him but you have a 0% chance of ever touching a winning time of his.
Watch at 0:59. He wants to crush the field every race and get the CR. Sometimes you have to hold back. Xavier played it cool with JW and with ZM and destroyed them.
As for training. Strava shows JW tapered hard for 3 weeks. He should have been reasonably fresh. I say more race error than training error here. See the video.
Sorry dude, Jim needs to do that just to stay warm. A short bit like that on easy running is nothing if you've watched what his pace can be deep into other ultras. If you think that was too fast, why was Zach and Kilian running with him pretty soon after? Jim blowing up a race from the start would have been more like Western States last year, where he had a 20 minute lead or something like that only two hours into the race. He just didn't have it this race.
I don’t have strava - can you see when Jim did his runs? Did he do a lot of training runs starting at 6pm and going all night? I don’t do ultras but I know the time of day effects my runs. If I’m tired it effects my runs. If I’m cold it effects my runs. One of the reasons I wouldn’t do a 100 mile race is I don’t want to be awake running all night. That sounds hellish. It’s also something I know I would not be good at unless I specifically adjusted and trained for it. Maybe Jim just isn’t good at running all night while cold. If the race started at 5am it might make a big difference for him.
If someone consistently fails in head-to-head competition, the problem isn't the training- it's his head. He's so insecure he think he has to put in monster training to boost his confidence and ego. The funny thing is he talks a big game, but deep inside he's small and insecure. No amount of training, less or more, will make a difference if you lack competitive instinct and grit.
We've all had a teammate or two who could put in impressive workouts, but when it came to game time would crack...
UTMB actually does test for EPO and other PEDs on the day so it does require an appropriate taper off the juice. Risk with being drug tested should be minimized.
Afraid of Social Media Racing wrote:
Is this the beginning of the Professional Strava athlete?
Dominate segments, put up impressive training blocks, and engage in social media. No need to ever win races, or risk being drug tested.
Why risk social media disgrace?
Things happen during actual races. Unexpected things. Even the winners have benefited greatly from things way outside their control, but they are all amazing athletes - Cut these guys some slack!
I'm mesmerized by the fact that he can routinely run this type of mileage and never seems to be hurt. He's like the opposite of Anton Krupicka
1.5 cents wrote:
not a championship runner. wrote:
Jim isn't a win big or go home guy. He consistently struggles against competition. I can understand DNFing because of injury, but Jim lacks perseverance and quits because of things real Champions can push through to actually win. Look at the resumes of guys like Xavier and Kilian as examples of real Champions.
Consistently struggles against competition? I really don't understand the slander towards a guy willing to go to hell and back a few times throughout a race. He took 5th last year, and I'd argue that he was too conservative and gave up a spot or 2. He smashed the WS record by nearly 20 minutes on a day that should have never even been a possibility.
I agree with some prior posts, his body was likely overwhelmed by the block of training and little to no rest. Jim will win UTMB, if he makes that his A race for the summer, it's his to win. He has nothing left to prove @ WS. He'll get this done.
Whoooa, look out boys, we got a badazz lawyer up in here!!!
Written defamation is called "libel," while spoken defamation is called "slander."
MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:
I'm mesmerized by the fact that he can routinely run this type of mileage and never seems to be hurt. He's like the opposite of Anton Krupicka
Hoka vs. minimalism, maybe?
Haj's prep looks very different to JW.
March 280 km
April 780 km
May 360 km
June 250 km
July 400 km.
In April he put in the big Ks with weeks of 160 to 190 and about 4000 to 6000 metres elevation gain.
He ran a 24 hr race at the end of July covering 189 km with about 3900 metres elevation gain.
Time of runs wrote:
I don’t have strava - can you see when Jim did his runs? Did he do a lot of training runs starting at 6pm and going all night? I don’t do ultras but I know the time of day effects my runs. If I’m tired it effects my runs. If I’m cold it effects my runs. One of the reasons I wouldn’t do a 100 mile race is I don’t want to be awake running all night. That sounds hellish. It’s also something I know I would not be good at unless I specifically adjusted and trained for it. Maybe Jim just isn’t good at running all night while cold. If the race started at 5am it might make a big difference for him.
Nope, he's only ran through the night 3 times, all in competition. First last year for a UTMB 5th place finish! Then at another 100 ultra where he dnf last year, then this UTMB where he DNF. I think he didn't rest enough between WS CR and this UTMB.
You idiot Monday morning keyboard jockeys really disappoint me.
Five!! pages about this race and NOBODY has asked how fast Xavier Thevenard could run a marathon????
hey, I can waste time posting drivel too...... wrote:
You idiot Monday morning keyboard jockeys really disappoint me.
Five!! pages about this race and NOBODY has asked how fast Xavier Thevenard could run a marathon????
He couldn't even break 4 hours for the marathon he ran in 2016!!
Freaking hobby jogger.
;)
Coolbro 1 wrote:
Time of runs wrote:
I don’t have strava - can you see when Jim did his runs? Did he do a lot of training runs starting at 6pm and going all night? I don’t do ultras but I know the time of day effects my runs. If I’m tired it effects my runs. If I’m cold it effects my runs. One of the reasons I wouldn’t do a 100 mile race is I don’t want to be awake running all night. That sounds hellish. It’s also something I know I would not be good at unless I specifically adjusted and trained for it. Maybe Jim just isn’t good at running all night while cold. If the race started at 5am it might make a big difference for him.
Nope, he's only ran through the night 3 times, all in competition. First last year for a UTMB 5th place finish! Then at another 100 ultra where he dnf last year, then this UTMB where he DNF. I think he didn't rest enough between WS CR and this UTMB.
Why? 7:30 am California time is 4:30 pm in France, it's like he just woke up. It should have no affect.
Did Jim take a wrong turn and then lose all motivation to finish?