I was on the produce-growing team, in my D1 school's Agriculture Dept. My produce made the grade, and I was an All-American -- a farmer D1 athlete, sort of. I mean, farmers, like curling participants, are athletes, too, you know.
But I poo-poo those D2 and D3 produce-growing so-called All-Americans. D1 is where it's at when it comes to corn on the cob. Take it from a farmer D1 athlete.
To be fair, I usually preface, "full scholarship, D1 runner"... but let's check the stats, as I rarely lost to D2 or D3 guys.. as a matter of fact, my freshman times are like DII times... in fact, DII is closer to DIII than DI and DIII ia actually better than DII in some instances. There is actually no comparison, which is why DI guys take pride in being D1... they don't want to be lumped into the high school times seen at DII and DII... Check out the 2018 stats, courtesy of TFRRS -
95th Division I
800m, 1:49.77
1500m, 3:45.16
5000m, 14:02.96
10,000m, 29:40.63
3000mSC, 9:00.11
95th Division II
800m, 1:53.39
1500m, 3:55.15
5000m, 14:49.79
10,000m, 31:47.84
3000mSC, 9:37.11
95th Division III
800m, 1:54.89
1500m, 3:57.51
5000m, 14:56.61
10,000m, 31:52.41
3000mSC, 9:35.35
One of my favorite stories is the following. I was a DIII runner back in the 80s. Our team ran a big invitational meet where the top nationally D1 ranked team ran also. The D 1 team finished 1,3,4,5,6,7,8 places. I was 2nd. No greater feeling than to break the team up. The winner was top 10 at D1 Nats that year.
I ran 4 years at the U of O. I do refer myself as a "former D1". I find that impressive... but I guess you guys don't. I swear even if you had a WR it would be worthless in Letsrun standards.
Farmer D1 athlete wrote:
I was on the produce-growing team, in my D1 school's Agriculture Dept. My produce made the grade, and I was an All-American -- a farmer D1 athlete, sort of. I mean, farmers, like curling participants, are athletes, too, you know.
But I poo-poo those D2 and D3 produce-growing so-called All-Americans. D1 is where it's at when it comes to corn on the cob. Take it from a farmer D1 athlete.
Does D1 corn grow faster than D3 corn, or does it just taste better? ?
I like cornbread.
I was something like 30-35 at D3 cross country nationals twice as the 4th man on teams that finished 3rd two years in a row.
On that team, we had a 14:19 guy (me - and I likely could have run D1 had I run before getting to college ), a 14:25 indoors guy (a 4:10 high school miler who won Penn, was actually a D1 guy who had some legal troubles and transferred) and an 8:54 steepler (also a former D1 transfer).
That was a team that would have done pretty well in meets with D1 teams, but would have been buried in any of the Power 5 conference meets. But any one of those fastest three guys also would have (just) made the travel team for most D1 schools, especially when you put those times in while context of the early 90s. You can also imagine that the same would be true for the two teams ahead of us at cross nationals.
Again, anyone who disputes that D1 is markedly better at the top and deeper is being ridiculous.
But former D1 in and of itself is not a useful descriptor of running talent.
And for the record, I have never used the phrase "All American" to describe myself as a runner despite being a D3 All American. While it is arguably true, it is no more informative of my running talent than "former D1" without additional descriptors.
It's amazing to think that 20 years ago an All-American DIII runner just had to run 32 flat in the 10k. Now it's like 30:30!
tassert, do you have any data to prove that?
Hey, Smoove, are you paying attention to the data? D1 is MARKEDLY better than D2 and D2 is only MARGINALLY better than D3. Here you go - 95th Division I 800m, 1:49.77 1500m, 3:45.16 5000m, 14:02.96 10,000m, 29:40.63 3000mSC, 9:00.11 95th Division II 800m, 1:53.39 1500m, 3:55.15 5000m, 14:49.79 10,000m, 31:47.84 3000mSC, 9:37.11 95th Division III 800m, 1:54.89 1500m, 3:57.51 5000m, 14:56.61 10,000m, 31:52.41 3000mSC, 9:35.35
Smoove wrote:
Again, anyone who disputes that D1 is markedly better at the top and deeper is being ridiculous.
.
+1, sorry smoove.
Smoove wrote:
But former D1 in and of itself is not a useful descriptor of running talent.
.
What about the phrase “Olympic athlete” for someone who went to the Olympics and came in DFL? Or any member of a championship team who may not have actually played still can call themselves, for example “a Stanley Cup Champion”.
It’s trite to say that these sorts of general phrases don’t describe actual talent. Does it really need to be pointed out? However, they nonetheless still do have meaning. It’s just that there is a very small amount of vocal unsuccessful people who get upset by these sorts of terms and see them as a personal slight.
No need to be sorry - I agree with you guys on that. I thought I communicate that clearly, but obviously I didn't. Again, D1 is markedly better at the top and it is deeper than the other tiers. What I was intending to carve out is that the better D2 and D3 guys would be solid additions to many D1 teams.
As to the 32:00 D3 All America claim, in 1994 the last All America spot was 30:41, in a tactical race for 2nd place. I know it was a tactical race for 2nd place, because I was 2nd place after being lapped at the 4 mile mark (despite going out in 15:06) by the winner who ran 28:53. That race did not include two other guys who qualified with faster times (including a 2nd sub 30:00 guy), but chose to run the 5000m only in the hopes of picking off the 10,000m when he doubled back for the 5000m.
I would also note that the qualifying time for D3 nationals back then was about 31:20 or so, so to the extent that slower times resulted in D3 All America status, it was the result of tactical racing or weather.
Good D3 Naionals results link here:
http://www.sagehens.com/sports/wtrack/D3HistoriansReport/Report
I am not upset at all, I just enjoy precision in the use of language and was more weighing in on an on-going discussion about a point that someone else pointed out and that people were debating more than anything else.
And to say a word has meaning is even more trite than to say that they are not descriptive of actual talent. Every word has meaning, but not every word is useful in conveying accurate information. Why add a phrase that does not convey relevant information when you know that it is implied to do just that?
Just for fun, here’s the slowest times run at the NCAA championships in each division:
800
1500
3000 SC
5000
10000
D1 women
2:09
4:27
10:35
16:36
35:23
D2 women
2:16
4:44
11:02
17:45
37:57
D3 women
2:15
5:03
11:43
19:19
39:55
D1 men
1:54
3:56
9:11
14:29
31:37
D2 men
1:55
3:56
9:50
15:32
33:05
D3 men
1:56
4:11
9:45
15:38
32:55
This was for 2018.
Y'all forgetting the fastest and strongest collegiate association in town. The good ol' NAIA.
I lettered at a Power 5 school as a frosh and soph, then went to a D2 school and made All-American as a Junior and Senior. Am I a douche no matter what I say?
I resemble that remark wrote:
I lettered at a Power 5 school as a frosh and soph, then went to a D2 school and made All-American as a Junior and Senior. Am I a douche no matter what I say?
Yes.
You wanna kick out LoneStarXC??
Is ex-Stanford golfer Tiger Woods a former D1 athlete? Does the Tiger sh*t in the woods?