Jim Walmsey is better than you and so is ultra running

Joe Gray runs mostly undermarathon distance because he knows he can win those races.

Jim Walmsley runs 50 to 100 milers because he knows he can win those races.

Galen Rupp runs road marathons because he knows he can win those races.

Evan Jaeger runs the steeplechase because he knows he can win those races.

Is there something wrong with that?

Bekele runs because he is the best runner.

Hey mods, can you do some work to get rid of the anti-gay slurs popping up on all the ultra running threads and wherever else they pop up on this website??? Much appreciated.

This conversation has no end. Similarly, enjoying Rupp's successes or any elite runner's successes has no singular "awesome" or "congratulations". There is so much negativity on this website. Many of you should seek a therapist and try to find some enjoyment in your remaining days.

Give respect where it is due; Walmsley is phenomenal. Period. No one on this website has his credentials; if they did, he wouldn't own all these course records.

Saying that track is the only running sport that matters or that marathon running is the longest race anyone should care about, is the same mentality that kept Pre running the mile. Look what happened when he changed distances...

Joe Gray has already crushed Jim Walmsey in legitimate championship races that actually drug test. Finished almost two full minutes ahead of him in a 12km xc event at 2015 USA Nationals. http://www.usatf.org/usatf/files/61/61f7cfcf-67e0-427f-901b-7f9fd15502d9.pdf

Who is it? wrote:

Oranges and apples wrote:

Two different kind of runners.

Comparing him to Joe Gray is like comparing Kipchoge to Rudisha...

I hope he is not like Joe Gray. Is this the same Joe Gray that just lost to two unknown runners in Poland?

At least Jim wins races.

wejo wrote:I am a bit surprised he hasn't run a traditional marathon if that's accurate as I don't see how he would skip over that in getting to ultras.

Once anything starts having money it would attract different runners.

Surprised? He doesn't run a traditional marathon because he knows he is mediocre. And he doesn't want other people to know that.

But I agree that having money in the event changes everything. Look what happened to Warriors Dash when they offered big prize money. After seeing Kimber Mattox annihilate the competition, Bridget Franek entered the race next year and beat Mattox by 26 seconds.

Who likes to lose all the time? wrote:

Jim Walmsley runs 50 to 100 milers because he knows he can win those races.

Galen Rupp runs road marathons because he knows he can win those races.

Evan Jaeger runs the steeplechase because he knows he can win those races.

Is there something wrong with that?

I think this gets to the point pretty well.

Why do many people strongly that "ultrarunning sucks and isn't real running" or that "track/road running is so much easier than ultrarunning"? Both are such different sports- Just look at the bodies of the top runners in both sports. Clearly different specializations.

Personally- I just love spending time running on trails instead of roads. It is more peaceful, and I like it more. I've found that I enjoy pushing myself to run farther distances rather than exclusively running faster over shorter distances. Obviously I am an amateur. But I think the top athletes in both sports have insane training regimens that are incredibly difficult. Jim Walmsley said that he had multiple 150 mile weeks with 30,000+ feet of elevation. The milage is high, but the elevation is just another level. That is absolutely as difficult as the training that athletes in other running disciplines put in.

The race issue is an interesting topic- I think that there is some validity to saying that ultra/mountain running is skewed towards wealthier people, because similar to triathlon, it takes a lot of time to slog through really long runs in the mountains, and leisure time is a luxury often afforded to wealthier people. Also, for the vast majority of kids, they get their first taste of track and distance running in middle or high school. It's not like there's high school ultrarunning teams. Also I imagine that mountainous areas are probably majority white areas?

wejo wrote:

But Jim shows what a guy with solid track credentials can do in this sport. I am a bit surprised he hasn't run a traditional marathon if that's accurate as I don't see how he would skip over that in getting to ultras.

Once anything starts having money it would attract different runners.

Fortunately, ultramarathons don't have a requirement that subjects you to the idiocy of running 26 miles on paved streets around a big city before you are able to compete.

I also agree that drug testing has got to be implemented consistently across the ultra-trail world. Just because there's not huge purses to be won like there are at big international marathons, but there's absolutely big sponsorship deals.

I mean wasn't there news recently about amateur cyclists doing EPO just to win/finish higher in their age group?

wejo wrote:

I agree with the poster who said a lot of fans of Ncaa/Olympic Track and Field don't follow the ultra scene. I know what Western states is, Comrades, but I had to Google what UTMB was. Heard of it but I have no idea which is more prestigious. And yes I probably would have figured mountain running is different than whatever western states is or say the 100k flat record.

But Jim shows what a guy with solid track credentials can do in this sport. I am a bit surprised he hasn't run a traditional marathon if that's accurate as I don't see how he would skip over that in getting to ultras.

Once anything starts having money it would attract different runners.

He found a niche and is doing something he enjoys. He does have longer term intentions of racing a marathon, but correctly has stated that if / when he runs one, he'll get pigeon-holed and identified by his time. If he OTQs with a 63 13.1 as is his tentative plan and debuts in the OTs, does he go for time or position? Let's assume for example he is 2:11 talent. Essentially that makes him one more shmuck doing the grind with all of the rigidity in the world, likely as part of a training group somewhere and without the freedom he enjoys while only being a national class (give or take) marathoner - and I say this with all respect in the world for the 2:11 guys, a time I can only dream of. At that point he'd have to train with single-minded devotion to hope for marginal gains. This way he gets to play (train hard) on the trails and alter his training a bit depending on the race. He is talented enough to compete on whatever level on the roads and mountains, but an undulating runnable course (ie, not pure mountain like UTMB, or alpine like Hardrock) like Western States, and possibly Comrades is I believe, his forte. Not that he's looking for one to run necessarily, but running well on the hilliest marathon you can find wouldn't bring any accolades.

As for me, admittedly a recreational runner who has come to follow all running, from fixed time short loop multi-days to mountain ultras, to the Diamond League, and everything in between - I don't get the lack of interest. Running is running. The sprints matter to me less because I have no concept of that kind of running. But if one enjoys spectating unpredictable marathons, I don't see why something longer is any less interesting.

There is a rich history of ultras - and there was a day back when ultras were no more bizarre than a marathon. I recently had the pleasure of meeting Bernard Gomersall, one of only two men to win both Comrades and London to Brighton (the byone race that was for many years the defacto WC of ultrarunning). He did this in the 60s. People had some awareness of the marathon because of the Olympics, but if you were running in the street training for a marathon or ultra, the distance at that point didn't really matter - it was all the same kind of weird. The great GB 2:09 marathoner Ian Thompson (1970s) was one of the greats of his era. Hhe ran London to Brighton of 1980 (he was at ripe old age of 31) - that race in particular was made by mid 2:2X marathoner Allan Kirik doing much of the front running and pushing the pace. Ultimately Thompson overtook Kirik for the win. Comrades too has seen a number of 2:09/10 marathoners compete. Comrades in particular combines a bit of the at-times wild west unpredictability of ultras with the spectacle of the Boston Marathon, and is one of the oldest footraces in the world.

There have been a number of elites (not modern East African level talent) who have raced in the 50 mile range, and certainly many sub elites (Barney Klecker, Don Ritchie, Bruce Fordyce, Cavin Woodward). Lake Saroma 100K this past weekend saw 5 runners under 6:30 with a new WR set (6:09:XX - those 5 were all together as far as 75km on record pace, splitting 50km in ~3:02) as well as last year's 6:14 winner who finished in ~6:40. The race has seen ~2:25 marathoner Tomoe Abe set the WR 100K (an astonishing ~6:33). Pray tell why that isn't interesting? If anything I find ultras more accessible to follow than the at times, obscure and arcane world of track racing which is not at all user friendly to those who haven't been exposed to it at the scholastic level.

Will someone remind me why Walmsley is hated so much on here? Because he took up ultrarunning and happened to be pretty good at it and someone decided to pay him to do it? Is there any other reason (like is he overly self-promoting and cocky? I don't know, because I don't really use any social media) or is that literally it?

They have lots of fans and good athletes but just look at the top 10 finishers in local races. I can just show up with no ultra specific training and win some of the events and I'm beyond OLD. Only raced two but I just go extremely slow and eat often.

Know a couple sponsored runners that win some of the big races in this part of the world that have recent 2:31 - 2:40 marathon PB's. Great athletes but comparing them to non-ultra elite runners is silly.

The OP wasn't making any comparisons and agree Jim had an amazing performance.

safkj wrote:

Oh, LOOK, LRC, it's the latest Walmsley-hating rhetoric!! Look what Squampy Nuts made up: "Jim isn't a mountain runner yet."!! Hahahah... he only placed 5th at UTMB and has virtually every Mountain course record on the planet.

If we follow his trajectory, he will win UTMB in a CR in 2020. He is probably the best mountain runner since Joe Gray.

Squampy Nuts wrote:

Jim isnt a mountain runner yet. He trains for desert races and has the heat advantage. But running in high elevation cold weather is an entirely different type of running. He gets by on raw talent...but....chasing down euros in the alps....hes still mid pack elite. Unless he starts working in the san juans for UTMB this summer....hes not going to beat Francois or Kilian of thevenard

Speedgoat was the only true mountain ultra he has done successful at. But if euros came hed be 3-5th. 5th at UTMB is not 1st. What other mountain course records has he done? Kendall mountain run? thats not a race swarmed with euros and its short. Until he goes over seas and starts crushing mountain races against the euros ...he is just an american runner. Tromso, UTMB, grand laid la reunion. Winning western states is cool and all....but its designed for americans.

The races you mention are not championships. Gray has won championships, Jim wins ultras with a lack of a big number of actual talented athletes and also non drug tested events. Gray > King > Walmsley. Gray and Max get tested in and out of competitions so I pick them over a guy who blows up at every drug tested championship he has done

Plus Gray has beat Jim every time they have raced.

YesButNo wrote:

Joe Gray has already crushed Jim Walmsey in legitimate championship races that actually drug test.

Finished almost two full minutes ahead of him in a 12km xc event at 2015 USA Nationals.

That's not even 7.5 miles.

Like saying some random sprinter crushed Bekele over 200 meters.

And what's with your obsession with drugs.

Running is a physical activity, and the longer it's kept out of pseudoscientific laboratories, the better.

Who likes to lose all the time? wrote:

Joe Gray runs mostly undermarathon distance because he knows he can win those races.

Jim Walmsley runs 50 to 100 milers because he knows he can win those races.

Galen Rupp runs road marathons because he knows he can win those races.

Evan Jaeger runs the steeplechase because he knows he can win those races.

Is there something wrong with that?

And many hobby joggers on this board run turkey trots because they know they can win those races...

Just to put things into perspective, a Japanese guy just broke the 100k world record, 6:09:14 if I remember well. That's 3'43min/km.

Yes, on flat asphalt, of course.

The guy is a 2:17 marathoner.

Look what happened when they put money in beer miles. That brooks guy was given 100k then some canadien sub 4 miler smashed him to pieces.

Until there is money in ultras, it will remain well noncompetative

Remember when marathoners thought they were some mythical breed and those track runners would never be able to handle their distance. Then the track runners moved up and kicked their butts and they fled to the Ultra's. Trust me, the ultra guys better hope the money never moves significantly enough to attract the marathon crop or else they'll get chased out all over again. Not every marathon guy would handle the Ultra's well but you get enough 2:12 or better guys and at least a few are going to be able to smash these guys.