Whoever linked this article above, thank you. Very insightful. The middle east angle should not be ignored.
http://spe15.fr/ruth-jebet-championne-olympique-du-steeple-controlee-positive/
Whoever linked this article above, thank you. Very insightful. The middle east angle should not be ignored.
http://spe15.fr/ruth-jebet-championne-olympique-du-steeple-controlee-positive/
Oh my god no wrote:
I'm highly sceptical of who and why they get caught. Almost every time someone gets caught it is a dispensable that is not a household name and doesn't damage the sport. Is it a coincidence that none of the top performers with large endorsements and lots of publicity EVER get caught. Those who do, seem to be those without significant legal and financial backing. Coe can sit there and say 'we need these people out of our sport' yet high profile athletes with incredibly dubious connections get away without any negativity. It's a joke, has everyone forgotten about Jama Aden and his many associations! Protection.
?
So explain why Jebet, Olympic champion and world record holder, with huge financial backing in the form of Bahrain, just tested positive??
Looks like her Saudi coach was arrested by Kenyan police last week. That Bahrain camp in Kapsabet (as well as all other dodgy foreign ones) should be dismantled. I hope those who accused me of xenophobia in that other thread about foreign athletes moving to Kenya get where I'm coming from.
https://twitter.com/thierryvildary/status/970340315751178241
She lives and trains in Kenya with Kenyan athletes.
That's why this positive smears Kenyan athletics. It means she and potentially others have been getting away with doping in Kenya.
If she lived in Bahrain then Kenya would be off the hook.
ex-runner wrote:
She lives and trains in Kenya with Kenyan athletes.
That's why this positive smears Kenyan athletics. It means she and potentially others have been getting away with doping in Kenya.
If she lived in Bahrain then Kenya would be off the hook.
Nope. She trains with other athletes handpicked and paid for by the Bahrainis under their mercenary program in a camp built and run by Bahraini money. Her main coach appears to be Middle Eastern.
As for "getting away with doping in Kenya", isn't this a bust? How are they getting away if they're being caught? If anyone is getting away with doping it's Americans, Brits and Europeans because, just like the Russians, none are getting caught. And you can never convince me there are no Americans (not just our friends at the NOP) partaking in all sorts of PEDs.
My last word on Ruth Jebet then I'm done because I shouldn't bother with her since she's not Kenyan.
She's essentially under contract with Bahrain where they've agreed to pay her 6-7 figures in return for medals. It is a job. If she underperforms, the money is taken away as punishment. Of course this type of model would encourage someone to cheat unlike her Kenyan rivals like, say, Hyvin Kiyeng who is not under that kind of pressure from her government or federation. Simple.
How much did the EPO slow her down?
El Keniano wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
She lives and trains in Kenya with Kenyan athletes.
That's why this positive smears Kenyan athletics. It means she and potentially others have been getting away with doping in Kenya.
If she lived in Bahrain then Kenya would be off the hook.
Nope.trains with other athletes handpicked and paid for by the Bahrainis under their mercenary program in a camp built and run by Bahraini money. Her main coach appears to be Middle Eastern.
As for "getting away with doping in Kenya", isn't this a bust? How are they getting away if they're being caught? If anyone is getting away with doping it's Americans, Brits and Europeans because, just like the Russians, none are getting caught. And you can never convince me there are no Americans (not just our friends at the NOP) partaking in all sorts of PEDs.
She trains with other Kenyan athletes in Kenya. Period.
She got caught but has quite obviously been doping for a number of years. She didn't take EPO for the first time ever right before testers showed up.
8:52 in 2016 following a meteoric rise to the top. So I'd estimate she's been doping since at least 2014. During that time she has won many medals and titles. It isn't fair on clean athletes, the damage has already been done and can't be undone.
I don't care about America they have a terrible doping record also. Many Russian athletes have been caught hence the continued total ban.
Unbelievable performances such as falling and hitting ones head on the tarmac before getting up to win the London marathon, or running 8:52 when 9:00 is an unbelievable standard and the WR is 8:58 make it difficult to trust other amazing performances by Kenyan athletes, when those aforementioned end up testing positive.
Sumgong and Jebet both won gold in the last Olympics.
Just like Russians training and living in Russia have some degree of skepticism surrounding their performances, it is reasonable to treat Kenyans living and training in Kenya with some caution also.
Not due to state-sponsored doping, but rather due to unsponsored testing.
Attempts to victimise Kenya here are pathetic. Kenya isn't doing enough to combat extremely successful high profile dopers and this along with Sumgong is proof.
El Keniano wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:
Btw, can you tell me what happened to Ayanleh SOULEIMAN, Silas KIPLAGAT, Abdelaati IGUIDER, Ronald KWEMOI, Ferguson Cheruiyot ROTICH and Yenew ALAMIREW for example?
What are you on about? The athletes you mentioned are all still active. Silas and Fergurson are older with their best days behind them. Ronald Kwemoi is quite possibly at his peak. Not my place to speak for Souleiman from Djibouti, Iguider from Morocco and Alamirew from Ethiopia as I'm Kenyan and don't know what goes on in those countries.
I will add information on the others
Souleiman: World leader in the 1500 this year
Iguider: Just won a bronze medal at worlds, also has the 2nd best 1500 this year
Alamirew: Got old so he's moved up to the marathon, ran a 2.08 debut only a couple of weeks ago.
They're all doing amazing things. Great examples by "TrackCoach" LOL
actual follower of running wrote:
I will add information on the others
Souleiman: World leader in the 1500 this year
Iguider: Just won a bronze medal at worlds, also has the 2nd best 1500 this year
Alamirew: Got old so he's moved up to the marathon, ran a 2.08 debut only a couple of weeks ago.
They're all doing amazing things. Great examples by "TrackCoach" LOL
Iguider is a downright smoker; 3:28.79 PB which makes him the 8th fastest man at that distance and almost a half second faster than his fellow countryman & CERA specialist Ramzi. Iguider also has a sub-13 5000. Here he is running against Ramzi in the 1500 final way back in Beijing:
https://youtu.be/_GfuqCDtVK0They made a truck load of cash. That's what it is all about.
El Keniano wrote:
My last word on Ruth Jebet then I'm done because I shouldn't bother with her since she's not Kenyan.
She's essentially under contract with Bahrain where they've agreed to pay her 6-7 figures in return for medals. It is a job. If she underperforms, the money is taken away as punishment. Of course this type of model would encourage someone to cheat unlike her Kenyan rivals like, say, Hyvin Kiyeng who is not under that kind of pressure from her government or federation. Simple.
You contradict yourself in this very post. Ruth Jebet is Kenyan in all but the flag she runs under. She never moved there, never assimilated to that lifestyle. You're 100% right in that it's a contract. Any of the folks that run for Bahrain or Qatar are just contractors who never even go to the place they are supposed to represent, and I'll wager cannot even speak the language.
This is totally different than someone like Bernard Lagat, who has lived in the US since the 1990s, went to school here, built a family here, learned the language, etc. Or Paul Chelimo who joined the US Army and lives here. Another is Cheserek who came here as a teen and assimilated and seems to be happy to do so. We are happy to call them Americans (well, some of us are). If they cheat it should reflect upon the US.
Oh my god no wrote:
I'm highly sceptical of who and why they get caught. Almost every time someone gets caught it is a dispensable that is not a household name and doesn't damage the sport. Is it a coincidence that none of the top performers with large endorsements and lots of publicity EVER get caught. Those who do, seem to be those without significant legal and financial backing. Coe can sit there and say 'we need these people out of our sport' yet high profile athletes with incredibly dubious connections get away without any negativity. It's a joke, has everyone forgotten about Jama Aden and his many associations! Protection.
ex-runner wrote:
So explain why Jebet, Olympic champion and world record holder, with huge financial backing in the form of Bahrain, just tested positive??
Because she is NOT a privileged white runner from the US or GB, like Radcliffe and Barringer.
Taking this beyond Ruth Jebet, it seems blindingly obvious that any modern WR has to certainly be with the aid of "doping." Just like winning the Tour de France is almost certainly a sign of pharma-help.
Otherwise you're asking people to believe that there was (or are) people so fantastically good that they set marks clean that no doper has been able to touch. Actually that is not even the whole picture, dopers aren't able even get remotely close to these supposed WR.
Anyone want to believe 29:17 is a clean record? Or a 3:50 1500? Or a 2:17:01 "women's only" marathon?
Men's 5000 it's now rare to get within 18 seconds of the WR (sub 12:55)! The 10000, no one has got within 25 seconds of the WR in 10 years, and even then it was the WR holder who did it.
Easy answer ~~ wrote:
Oh my god no wrote:
I'm highly sceptical of who and why they get caught. Almost every time someone gets caught it is a dispensable that is not a household name and doesn't damage the sport. Is it a coincidence that none of the top performers with large endorsements and lots of publicity EVER get caught. Those who do, seem to be those without significant legal and financial backing. Coe can sit there and say 'we need these people out of our sport' yet high profile athletes with incredibly dubious connections get away without any negativity. It's a joke, has everyone forgotten about Jama Aden and his many associations! Protection.
ex-runner wrote:
So explain why Jebet, Olympic champion and world record holder, with huge financial backing in the form of Bahrain, just tested positive??
Because she is NOT a privileged white runner from the US or GB, like Radcliffe and Barringer.
If she was doping, then she was doping. Maybe someone had an agenda to discredit or discourage Nationality switches. I don't know and it is not relevant to the fact that she was potentially doping.
It is not about being privileged. In the US or GB, there are many reasons why I believe they are on average cleaner than East African runners, and it is simply to do with the impact of what a single race win could do for someone and what the ramifications are for getting caught. Most US runners could probably make more doing traditional jobs, whereas my understanding is that in Kenya, winning a big race and say getting 80k USD for it is life changing. I suspect if "you have nothing to lose" then taking a shot here and there is no big deal.
If we were talking NFL, NBA, MLB, then yea, probably all doping. There is too much money involved. Life changing money. But in the US and GB, running is niche and aside from a very small handful of people, no one is making good money doing it. Webb is running a truck fixing company for crying out loud! He did not earn life changing money in spite of the impact he had to US running.
Easy answer ~~ wrote:
Oh my god no wrote:
I'm highly sceptical of who and why they get caught. Almost every time someone gets caught it is a dispensable that is not a household name and doesn't damage the sport. Is it a coincidence that none of the top performers with large endorsements and lots of publicity EVER get caught. Those who do, seem to be those without significant legal and financial backing. Coe can sit there and say 'we need these people out of our sport' yet high profile athletes with incredibly dubious connections get away without any negativity. It's a joke, has everyone forgotten about Jama Aden and his many associations! Protection.
ex-runner wrote:
So explain why Jebet, Olympic champion and world record holder, with huge financial backing in the form of Bahrain, just tested positive??
Because she is NOT a privileged white runner from the US or GB, like Radcliffe and Barringer.
I see so you just think it's a race issue.
So naive.
Have you seen the Team Sky bust in the news?
They are much whiter, richer and British than anyone successful in athletics.
Oh Please wrote:
It is not about being privileged. In the US or GB, there are many reasons why I believe they are on average cleaner than East African runners, and it is simply to do with the impact of what a single race win could do for someone and what the ramifications are for getting caught. Most US runners could probably make more doing traditional jobs, whereas my understanding is that in Kenya, winning a big race and say getting 80k USD for it is life changing. I suspect if "you have nothing to lose" then taking a shot here and there is no big deal.
If we were talking NFL, NBA, MLB, then yea, probably all doping. There is too much money involved. Life changing money. But in the US and GB, running is niche and aside from a very small handful of people, no one is making good money doing it. Webb is running a truck fixing company for crying out loud! He did not earn life changing money in spite of the impact he had to US running.
Then how do you explain institutionalised doping systems in the UK? Many of my French friends openly state that they do not trust British cycling.
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/970542728621719552British cycling is very suspicious because britain went from having few moderately talented cyclists to producing Tour der france winners with the rise of one team. Its like us postal or team Telekom. Suddenly british cyclists are beating all the major nations? If Something is too good to be true it is